Thread by @tribunaltweets

We will be live tweeting day 6 of nurse Sandie Peggie v Fife Health Board and Dr Upton from 9.30am today or soon after.

SP’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation.

The early start is due to concerns that the hearing may not be concluded in the 2 weeks allocated. The morning is likely to be continued cross examination of Dr Upton before the R's witnesses are called.

The employment judge has given specific directions to witnesses called by the parties to not read our, or any other coverage before giving evidence:

More background information on the case, our earlier coverage and press articles can be found at

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We endeavour to catch as much of what we hear in court as possible but our live tweeting is not a verbatim transcript. We make every effort to report accurately and will correct relevant inadvertent factual errors.
We may use c1s to avoid tweets being supressed.

Abbrevs used:

C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russell, KC, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs

J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional panel members
CR - changing room
AE - Accident & emergency department
B&H - bullying and harassment
SS - single sex
HR - Human Rights
TW - Transwoman
HI - hate incident

PCP - provision, criteria or practice is a rule/policy/ practice that can put ppl at a disadvantage based on certain characteristics. The term is used in employment law to assess whether an employers actions create different outcomes for employees based on their characteristics.

KS - Kate Searle, DU's supervisor and A&E consultant
ED - Esther Davidson, SP’s line manager
SF - Stuart Fraser, SP’s RCN Rep
AG - Angela Glancy, headed up SP's investigation
IX - investigation
CX or FC - (formal) complaint
DX - disciplinary
FtP - fitness to practice

J We've had a request to speak more directly and will try to start at 9.30 generally. But will stop at around 4pm as our concentration wanes and we get tired. We're just sorting out screen
NC One preliminary point J, I don't like R2s supporters sitting behind me and seeing my

NC screen
J That seems sensible. Remind under oath.
NC Cple of brief Qs on ydays topic. Do u agree that W w a history of sexual trauma is defined by it?
DU No
NC So true they may need forensic exam, rape crisis services. They work, go in buses, etc

DU Anyone may need these services
NC Yr answer boils down to Yes
J Take the witnesses answer
NC He's using up time w long answers
JR why are u asking irrel Qs then?
NC Some patients will read u as F
DU Yes, they read me as a woman or F. I dont discuss my T history w them

NC Some patients may be drunk, on drugs, have an eye injury and I'm suggesting yr self evidently male. But some may not observe this
JR I object. It's irrelevant suggesting DU is sexually assaulting ppl, that's no tan issue. This isnt a roving injuiry into T drs and SS spaces

JR JT saying DU is obviously male is erroneous as y'll see in the previous documents. [reads out prev from Judge Timmiom]
J It's not reasonable or practicable that I cant ask the witness Qs that I want. The sequence may be opaque, that's how X exam works. JR objected constantly

NC yday and has done so 10 mins in today. I note you always allowed the Qs. I hope u say these interventions aren't reasonable. I didnt interupt when her X was irrelevant or even abusive. I let her do her job.
J I won't tell her to do that. And I didnt stop all her intervention

J It's not approp to stop her objecting. I may say something if approp. It isnt clear how this Q is working so will allow it at this point
NC I'm grateful but finding my task hampered by her interuptions
J It's part of litigation though as we know
NC We will go v slowly then

NC Do u agree that it's obvious yr male and some AE patients it wont be obv yr male
DU I dont beleive being drunk affects yr ability to identify a T person, state of intoxiccation. Me being T isn't obv to everybody, maybe to some

NC What if a woman asks to see a F dr
DU I dont see i have to give personal info to patients. I have no obligation to do that. There's no reason to. I dont see that.
NC What about a rape survivor wanting an actual W and not a TW?

DU I dont accept actual woman. I assume u mean c1s woman. ANyone can exp sexual violence, and it can be taken into account within limits of providing care in an emerg situation
NC It follows, that her wish for a F dr, a F patient wld be expected to reveal her sex trauma?

DU No any patient can refuse to see a dr. [gives an eg of a racial patient and staff issue] we accom as much as possible, w/out giving reasons
NC Imagine a woman in AE has unexplained heavy bleeding and says wants a F dr, is it ok for u to be asigned to see her?

DU It depends on the history. Catastriphic means resus, but otherwise short history and to O&G.
NC Imagine later and short history. Is she entitled to F for history
DU If she wanted me to leave, I would and get someone else. Consent is v important and take pat's wishes

seriously. dont want to impose suffering
NC So it's up to her to sya I dont feel comfy w you?
DU That's how it works. U dont know if she'd accept a TW. Y'd explain how exam works and stopping when patient wants to. Our job to make ppl comfy. It's approp for a dr to see this pat

DU Yes I consider myself empathic
NC But u think a woman in that sitn who has asked for a F dr, who realsies yr a male as she's distressed or only slowly realsises yr male. Using empathy, do u not see is v cruel?
DU Consulting rooms and cubicles so not necess in a separateroom

DU ANy person of any GI can experience or undertake sexual trauma. They often dont disclose this, whoever they are. Every single clinician wld have to say "this is my sex, GI, are u happy w me" I apprec they might find it hard to see me. My job is gathering info and treating

ppl
NC Long speech
JR It was a long Q
NC U said wasnt a given wld be in a room w you,
DU Not a gynae room but ent room used [listing all the rooms which NC cuts off]
J U can aske me to stop a Q but not do it yrself
NC Please do
DU there's no specific gynae room

NC When I refer to a W I mean bio W, what y'd call c!s woman, also those you'd called assigned female at birth that may say they're men, NB, agender or demiboy. Just the beginning of a long list of infinite genders. I refer to biol catagory of women whatever their GI

JR She can't determines DU's language
J She's not doing that, it's about her own language
NC exactly right and I havent insisted anyone of witnesses uses the C's language preferences.
J That was my finding
NC Re a T identifying man you will understand TW
DU We discussed

yday, .so now getting confused. Yes,understand [after clarification]
NC When I talk about sex I'm talking about bodies that make eggs and sperm
DU I dont agree w you and may use my own language
NC The J has said u can use the language u want
DU Is that a Q?

NC No. Do u need to know religion or football team for blood test?
DU No
NC What about GI?
DU That's not true.
NC Go back to Pete, who we know is male. Are you saying to understand his GI too?
DU Is he TW or c!s man? He may be taking hormones that wld affect reference range

DU Cld argue not his GI, but hormones wld affect.
NC Did u just misgender Pete?
DU U told me he was a TM, so if I did I apologise
NC Describing Pete, who is my invention, what y'd call as c!s man, a big manly man
DU Do I need to know his GI? Not if matches his sex

NC But u need to know his sex as bld ranges differ by sex
DU Not much research on T ppl, but hormones affect ref ranges and we now use the sex they now align with for bld ref ranges. Thats what the evidence shows
NC If sex a nebulous dogwhistle, u cant do yr job?

DU No [missed]
NC Now look at incident of 28 Dec in the plaster room. U told E Pitt about Xmas eve incident immed didnt you
Yes
NC And then emailed KS in small hrs of Xmas day
Yes
NC Looking at the email: In last para you say not sure what next steps are, am shaken and

NC concerned wont feel safe. Make it clear u want something to be done
DU Yes, I want situation improved
NC Looing at yr letter to BMA on 26.12.23 and turn to para, [reads re current escalation, considering a FC, concerned re media re T ppl, but worried things may escalate]

NC U make the point, still only Boxing day, and say [reads re feeling uttely alone as no response from seniors] U say need urgent advice
DU Say I feel scared and upset and feel alone. Asking for advice from my union
NC On p272, y've told KS in yr initial report about not

feeling safe in CR if SP there
DU I said that. Saying is my intention to change elsewhere - my original thought re keeping myself safe. Everyone has options to use
NC No-one has been in touch by 28th?
Not heard from Elspeth or KS, no
NC So steps y'd asked for hadnt happened

Yes
NC Yet u went to womens CR
Yes. I decided ppl's bigoted opinions wldnt stop me doing what I felt best.
NC On 24.12 u stood yr ground re CR, but few hrs later u feel unsafe and later use the CR. Y're giving mixed messages?

DU No, I was shaken and freaking out. But then settled down. Gave a little info to a friend, that had an uncomfy incident and wld she accompany me as felt unsafe. No specifics. Put my big girl pants on but wasnt as brave as I thought I was, and went to plaster room in my socks

NC You explained thro tears to Elspeth, and tears on 29th. Not cos of threats from SP? No-one laid a finger on you. All this distress cos of what she said?
No. She asked Qs and compared me to a rapist. She'd decided to confront me. Never been spoken to like that in my life

NC How can u cope w my Qs over a longer period, that are more direct, w/out distress
DU I'm expecting it. Not ahead of Xmas and a long drive. My AE job is stressful and have to exude xlam. I deal w grumpy rude patients a lot, the parents of dying kids. I'm tapping into that

currently but am deeply distressed by this process
NC U met KS on the 29th. Her account is in IX interview w AG. She says in response to Q8, that she didnt get yr email immed as off work. Beth was pretty distressed and had crossover w her. Does this refer to the plaster room

DU Ask KS
NC U wanted retribution didnt u?
NO, wanted basic respect and justice
NC YU were driving home, cldnt accept risk w SP. Wanting them to punch down and act quickly
DU No was about Tphobic hate. I cant trust someone who behave like that & we need to trust each other.

DU I hadnt asked for anyone to be punished
NC See your note on your phone re the 29th where you say [reads re taking refuge in plaster room etc] U were sure she noticed you ...[sound interrupted by remote access]

DU In the moment of writing contemp note, I was sure she'd noticed and that was my biggest fear
NC She's sure she didnt see you
DU Maybe she didnt, that's fine
NC One person isnt telling the truth
DU Is about perception, my perception of the event and I'm arguing is my

perception
NC U made this up. U made a serious complaint and nothing had happened. So u were driving a message to remove her
DU No I didnt fabricate it and dont allege she's done anything but see me [clarified is socks incident]
NC Moving on to incident re patient not being

NC seen in AE. It's not a particularly long part but it might be worth having a break now?
J We'll break for 10 mins then. Thanks you.

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