Thread by @tribunaltweets

We hope to be live tweeting the morning session of day 10 of nurse Sandie Peggie v Fife Health Board and Dr Upton from 10am today or soon after.

Peggie claims sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation.

Discussions yesterday confirm that the case will go 'part heard' at the end of today's final scheduled day. Proceedings are likely to be suspended until July.

Esther Davidson's cross examination continues but no further witnesses will be called today.

The employment judge has given specific directions to witnesses called by the parties to not read our, or any other coverage before giving evidence:

More background information on the case, our earlier coverage and press articles can be found at

If you would like to support our work please consider subscribing to our Substack.tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fi…

We endeavour to catch as much of what we hear in court as possible but our live tweeting is not a verbatim transcript. We make every effort to report accurately and will correct relevant inadvertent factual errors. We may use c1s or cs to avoid tweets being suppressed.

Abbrevs used:
C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons, C’s solicitor
R/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russell KC, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs

J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional Panel members
CR - Changing room
AE - Accident & emergency department
B&H - Bullying and harassment
SS - Single sex
HR - Human Rights
TW - Transwoman
HI - Hate incident

PCP - provision, criteria or practice is a rule/policy/ practice that can put ppl at a disadvantage based on certain characteristics. The term is used in employment law to assess whether an employer’s actions create different outcomes for employees based on their characteristics.

IX - investigation
CX or FC - (formal) complaint
DX - disciplinary
FtP - fitness to practice
KS - Kate Searle, DU's supervisor and A&E consultant
ED - Esther Davidson, SP’s line manager
SF - Stuart Fraser, SP’s RCN Rep
AG - Angela Glancy, headed up SP's investigation

IB - Isla Bumba, Equality and Diversity Lead NHS Fife
MC - Maggie Currer, consultant
AS - Angie Shepherd, department service manager
LC - Louise Curran, senior charge nurse
LH - Lauren Hart, senior charge nurse
GM - Gillian Malone, head of nursing

10.15am: We are still in the online waiting room waiting to be admitted to the hearing

We're in and awaiting the J

J Any preliminaries?
NC We were talking yday about KS's emails ref to full support of nursing team. Did this concern u re the IX?
ED No. I didnt take advice from HR over this
NC Did u think u shld be
ED I assumed KS wld be called for evidence
NC Might she affect others evid

ED No, as no-one else saw the emails
NC U saw it tho
ED I was copied in but didnt respond to it
NC Email [reads re writing statement] Is it approp that KS was go between between R and DU
ED There's an email showing I chose to communicate directly w Beth

ED I asked Beth on 15 Jan to comm w me to commence the IX
NC But my Q is about this email, being a go betwn
ED I didnt think she was and I communicated directly with Beth
NC Look at yr IX planning doc
ED I completed it
NC Look at CR and alleged non-commun issues

ED Yes, we agreed this yesterday [resus and leaving AE]
NC The terms of ref [reads re CR] So zeroes in on one thing
ED Yes
NC But the alleged miscommunication are signif more important
ED we cld agree on the CR issue, and the allegation was things leading up to this

NC U didnt know CX were justified or not
ED That was reason for the IX
NC So 2 allegations: bullying and patient neglect due to bigotry and both needed IX
ED Yes,
NC So both of equal status?
ED WE only knew about CR and further allegs came out later

NC [find new document] A page of workforce policies, incl IX process. It says a pre IX stage [reads re immed action, risk assess, guide to SX, meeting w staff and offer support and letter] Did she get a letter
ED I met SP on 3 Jan and confirmed the SX in writing.

ED And the pack was sent, incl stipulating the suspension
NC Looking at the suspension letter. SP is told alleged unwanted behaviour against another member of staff. Is very vague
ED Yes
NC You didnt discuss the 2 patient issues at the first mtg?
ED No

NC [reads re IX process] You didnt sent a template for statement to DU
ED No as I didnt progress the IX but asked Beth to put it in writing
NC But the official way is the template
ED That was to determine what I had to IX as hadnt gone down formal IX process at that point

NC Did u tell SP u were the IX manager at that mtg?
ED Dont recall
NC U didnt as she didnt know until recently
ED I referred her to help and support and looked at possible witnesses. I didnt commence the IX.
NC Doc on IX planning, giving advice re B&H...sorry look at next

NC para. She didnt get that did she?
ED I dint commence the IX so didnt do any of this
NC So no orig IX mtg w SP
ED Checked she was stable so cld be interviewed
NC This wld be the path for alleged conduct IX
ED This didnt happen under me. It didnt happen, no

NC Yr answer to AG [new page] you say re suspension and bringing SP in. You phoned her on the 3rd, and made clear it was just a convo and not a formal part of the process
ED I made it clear to come in
NC TU rep
NC She said she was happy w/out rep
NC But she cldnt expect one

to be on hand though?
ED Correct
NC She thought an informal chat, but found you and AS. She asked if needed a rep and u said not this time but next time
ED Absolutely not
NC If u are right and offered her a chose. It isnt fair on her is it?

ED She was given the option for union rep
NC [find different page] Look again at terms of ref re CR, that's not a pat safety matter
ED No
NC You told the ET that patient safety concerns..
ED Also the safety of SP and Beth
NC What are unsafe from?
ED Further interaction,

perhaps unprof behaviour, as potential w leaving patient
NC Yr aware suspension a last resort
ED Yes
NC When Sx an AE nurse in pressed service u need to think long and hard
ED Yes, not an easy decision to make

NC [find new page] JH's email to HR ppl where she describes interview w you [reads re SX being the last resort and said never a SX before in AE] Vanishingly rare?
ED Yes
NC There must have been upsets before. Allegations of B&H
ED It's not freq
NC No allegs of bullying ever?

ED I dont think any allegations of bullying before. Only remember junior nurse under SP before.
NC [find new page] Email we've already looked at, touching on same convo she had w you. Says Sx is last resort, separating.. Esther thought cldnt keep them separate...

NC This isnt pat safety is it?
ED Ithink it's both. Keeping them separate but if SP walks out is safety
NC If the alleg is true. GM thinks is a pat safety issue. It must be unwilling to work tog?
ED It's both. Dont expect confrontation betwenn staff?
NC But CR isnt
ED No

NC But it's about DU being a man in the CR. It's ve specific to the presence in CR
ED She felt she shld be there
NC Forget that aspect. CR cant justify SX can it
ED It's both. You cant separate the 2 issues
NC It's clear from emails [reads re allegations and datix and leavng

NC [reads re leaving but not yet having a response from SP] Melanie Gorgenson to MSF says in email re Jackie's advice and potential of others being treated in thsi manner
ED The IX hadnt taken place
NC But if nothing in alleg u dont launch a full FC?

NC MG is trying to understand what pat safety issue is. The possibility the C might point out DU a man to other patients
ED That's not my interpretation
JR WHat have u read out
NC I havent. She's trying to understand, and this nothing to do w 2 missing issues. Suggesting T

identified patients might be at risk. Do u agree?
Patients undergoing a similar process..
ED We do treat transitioning patients
NC So pats w GR PC
ED We have transgender patients
NC So concern she might mistreat GR patients
ED U need to ask Melanie
NC So not yr concern
No

ED Our concern was SP leaving a cubicle
NC The response to MJ (or MG) who agrees that no evidence SP left a bay, only presumably Beth's perception. Never had concerns re SP before. Staffing crisis and what if a similar incident in another area
ED Yes, I did say that

ED It cld have happened anywhere in the dept
NC If issue was the CR, it cld only happen in a supposedly SS space
ED I cldnt determine where incidents might happen. I was worried re CR and pat care issues
NC HR think no evidence for 2 missing issues, so only worry re CR/SS

ED No IX so cant say.
NC No prev concerns re SP?
ED Just the one above
NC Only Beth saying re missing issues?
ED Wld have to be Beth and no IX to say otherwise. Wld be part of the IX
NC Might only be one person, but no corroboration to u or HR
ED No other person reported

NC No one asked SP
ED For the IX
NC Never mentioned in call
ED Ask LC
NC Nor the SX meeting? She wasnt told as only discussed the CR issue
ED The CR incident was brought to light first
NC U said yday u learnt of both at same time

NC Evid precipitated by CR issue and brought other issues to light then too
ED Yes. Was part of the same thing
NC BY end of convo w Jackie, GM said SP shld be SX for patient safety
ED Needed palnning for an IX and to prevent further incidents
NC U cld have said special leave

whilst we work out rotas
ED These rotas are very complex. ^ wks in advance to work out
NC KS seems to think this was feasible. See her email of 30 Dec: [reads re not having same shifts and KS thinks she's sorted]
ED KS has no responsibility for med rostas nor nursing

NC She's making it up?
ED SHe has no responsibility. U need to ask Kate
NC If real concern was keeping them apart, even if tricky step 1 was to look at rota and maybe put SP on leave for a shift or 2
ED Was to protect both staff and patients and keep them separate. Was a big

task
NC Yr really saying took til April to sort this
ED Also needing to protect all mwmbers and witnesses
NC What mmade her return work
ED Beth moved to anaesthetics so we changed her shifts
NC If just a practical problem to separate them, is much less drastic?

NC But no need to suspend. Much less drastic and economical
ED SX in place to give us time to commense IX and find a solution
NC AG Interviewed ppl in April so didnt need a SX
Felt best decision at the time. Proper process and support for ppl

NC [look at new doc, reads re issue is sharing CR]
ED That's what initiated IX
NC WHat worried u
That and pat safety
NC One obvious mitigation for CR wld be not to have overapping shifts, but another to find single occupancy room for DU
ED I seeked advice from HR lead who

said Beth was entitled to the CR
NC ISla Bumba
Yes
NC He is upsetting ppl and shld have had single space
ED I was told I cldnt exclude from CR
NC I understand trust commited to this but wld have solved problem practically
I took advice from HR and wasnt an option

NC It involved saying no to Beth, which we've seen is very difficult?
ED I was told by equality that I couldnt exclude TW
NC One way was to...
J She hasnt heard the previous evidence so she cant answer that..so dont ask the same Q and we want to finish today

JR Can we have a break soon?
J We'll do that now
[short break]

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