Thread by @tribunaltweets

Peggie v NHS Fife & Dr B Upton resumes this morning. Planned for 10 am but delays would not be unusual. Coverage of the first morning session will be in this thread.

Our previous reporting in our Substack here:
tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fi…

A reminder of the judge admonition to witnesses re our live text based communications.

Limitation of our reporting.

Abbreviations

Expected witness this morning is Gillian Malone (GM), Director of Nursing at NHS Fife. Was director of emergency nursing during the period relevant to the tribunal.

In person observers are being admitted to the tribunal rooms now.

Judge and Panel have entered the room. Judge discussing measures to manage the temperature of the room and allow for breaks.
J - walking GM through the formalities, she swears, briefs her, asks her to speak slowly and takes breaks so he can take notes, turns over to JR

JR name and duration of service at Fife
GM 20 years, Gillian Malone, Head of Nursing
JR explain your role
GM leadership and oversight of nursing services
JR who reports to you
GM no one, I have no direct reports
JR who does ED report to

GM (missed)
JR - hierarchy of nursing in the hospital?
GM - only one person over me, head of acute nursing in Aberdeen
JR - who is C's line manager,
GM - names 2,
JR - who manages them
GM - ED
JR - what is your relationship with SP

GM - she works a night shift, I don't know her
JR - refs to email from Jamie Doyle, end of August to Maggie Curran, read tell us what you make of it
GM - JD was clinical nurse manager, he and ED had a meeting, ED had made him aware that SP had concerns about DU using f CR.

this was just for my info.
JR - I'm going to stop you, I think you are thinking of another email, no concern expressed here, generic TW has right to use f CR
GM ----
J - we are struggling to hear you (as are we)
JR - you said you had no awareness of DU joining AE at that point

GM - who I believed that to be, I believed that person with concerns to be Nurse Peggie
JR -as the staff number who identifies as a woman
GM -I'm not sure I would have know that was DU at that point
JR - another email - from JD to GM, re Datix, forwarded Datix

what is a Datix
GM - formal NHS incident reporting system
Jr - did you read at the time
GM - I was off duty over the festive period, so did not read
JR - refs to bullying/potential hate incident
GM - I thought it was correct, Datix gives you categories

JR - when did you read Datix
GM - 2nd Jan when I was back
JR - lets look at Datix, description, incident involving protected characteristic, what did you make of that
GM - the description contains concerning allegations

JR - another doc; harassment policy, are you familiar
GM - yes
JR - explain to Tribunal if you thought any of these bullet points in policy were relevant
GM - harassing behaviour, allegations included inappropriate questions, derogatory comments
J - use numbers

GM - goes through numbers, also number 12.
JR - now hate incident policy, are you familiar
GM - no, I never had to use it before
JR - can you read the policy, tell us which bullet points might apply
GM - the last one, 6, harassment or victimisation,

JR - back to Datix, describes you as investigator, explain your role
GM - it automatically assigned me as investigator, but for me to re-assign
J - where are we
JR - now to feedback message from GM in the Datix, why did you say concerning report

GM - when I read the Datix, I was concerned, serious allegations, untested at this point, but something that needed to be i/x
JR - timing, when did u first become aware of incident
GM -return to work on 2 Jan
JR - how did you become aware

GM - it was a short summary of the Datix in my inbox, plus email from JD
JR - what was your awareness of relationship between SP & DU
GM no awareness
JR - aware of any tension between SP & DU
GM - no
JR - between SP and anyone else
GM - no

JR - what was your role in the ix
J - need to catch up
JR - now emails you sent or were copied on. First one; your email on 2 Jan, ref'd Datix extract, Nurse A has been supported with special leave. Why did you send
GM - this was on my return to work, I was asking about next

steps
JR - did you have a call with HR on 3 Jan
GM - I can't recall
JR - previous page is email from you to Norma Beveridge, why did you send her the Datix
GM - just making her aware
JR - your email to Ian Mccloud, 3 Jan, who is he
GM - deputy medical director

JR - why did you write to him
GM - a doctor was involved so I had to involve the medical staff
JR - he says he's going to update the director of medical education, involves a doctor.
GM - missed
JR - email from J Hurt (sp) near the end, ED says that it will be impossible to

keep them apart, patient safety issue because of seriousness of issue, wants to suspend. What was your discussion with ED
GM - it was a risk assessment, because of severity, were considering suspension, that comes up through me and then to Norma Beveridge as an escalation

JR - refers to SP working elsewhere, what was that about
GM - my recollection is that I said that was possible, depending on the risk assessment, it was an option
JR - why would that be an option
GM - it's always an option, to deploy elsewhere if people can't work together

JR - refers to patient safety issue, who thought there was a patient safety issue
GM - it was ED, who maybe had more information that there was a previous incident or incidents
JR - did you give any advice on that point
GM - just that she would have to work through the risk

assessment.
JR - to Feb, suspension extended, 2 emails you were copied in on, one from ED, one from Michelle Gilmour both CC'd to you. what was you awareness of the incidents in these emails
GM - just that I was copied in, they reviewed the suspension and any extension, I don't

get involved, it's up to the suspending manager.
<missed a q&a>
JR - email headed urgent referral, needing support, what was going here re occupational health (OH)
GM - OH were facing some staffing problems, couldn't get support for SP, they were advising ED that it was going

to be a few weeks to get SP OH support
JR - why did you need OH
GM - its part of the i/x process to give OH support
JR - a reply from you to Melanie, what was the update
GM - giving an update to Melanie, when the next meeting was going to be, GS had been off work for some time

SP had said she was waiting on availability of her MSP to join her so couldn't give availability
JR - what did you make of SP asking to have her MSP join the suspension meeting.
GM - I'd never heard of that
JR - we would support her being accompanied by union rep or colleague

, what's your understanding of that
GM - yes, that's what we would normally expect
JR - you requested info, passed things on to Lottie, what was that
GM - the right to be represented, that was what I passed on to her
JR - why that
GM - she'd been in discussions with

central legal office, and need more info
JR - another email, SP had escalated her concerns on DU using Cr on 2 previous occasions, how was that
GM - there had been a teams meeting, is my recollection, ED couldn't be the i/x officer because she had been on duty, needed another one

JR - says you were aware of SP having concerns
GM - that is not my recollection, I had seen the JDoyle email from end of August, but not aware of anything else at that point
JR - email from Fife Solicitors to Tribunal, change of i/x manager from ED to Angela Glancy, how did that

happen.
GM - I was asked to appoint an new i/x, I called 2 other clinical managers, one was Angela Glancy (AG) to take on workplace i/x. AG said she had capacity. I then confirmed that to HR.
JR - Moving to March, from Charlotte Miles to you, summary of SP suspension meeting

what was your input
GM - I had no input, it would be unusual for me to be involved in that kind of matter
JR - email from you to Melanie, suggesting a different shift pattern, why did you suggest
GM - an ongoing i/x, they shouldn't be working together and avoid any repeat

best they don't work at the same time.
JR - April SP return to work, issue of whether Band 7 or Band 6 be involved, why would that be reasonable
<J asking for help with docs>
GM a Band 7 is a senior charge nurse, Band 6, an experienced charge nurse - I felt it was reasonable

her to return to work with one of them on shift to offer her support
JR - what is a designated contact person
GM - someone who keeps in touch, checks in on person on suspension, an email where the general manager says that Michelle will continue as contact person.

I explained that once she returned to work, she wouldn't need a contact person.
JR - now July, 'urgent media inquiry' refers to a new allegation about breach of confidentiality from Sandra Rayner, head of Work Force Resourcing and Relations.

says we need to take an early intervention approach and remind SP of need to maintain confidentiality during an active i/x
GM - press coverage, didnt name doctor or nurse, but seemed that media had info on internal i/x, we needed to remind people of breaches of confidentiality

might compromise the i/x. Asking her to maintain confidentiality. Checked that she was getting the right support.
JR - why were you concerned about a breach of confidentiality might compromise i/x
GM - we ask everyone involved in an i/x to maintain confidentiality

JR - you were currently on to NMC, what was that about
GM - not unusual to talk with them, seek advice, I gave them context but no id of SP, explained the reasons why the i/x had been commissioned, looking for advice on media. Told me we should conclude internal i/x first.

JR - email from Norma Beveridge, based on info no reason to reconsider suspension based on rumours circulating
GM - that was not my recollection, I recall we talked about whether the rumour should factor into the risk assessment
JR - discussed on 3 July
GM - discussed in earlier

meeting, agreed that SP's line manager should talk with her
JR - who did you speak with
GM - I spoke to Louise Curran but it turned out that Lauren Harris (sp) would be next person on shift with SP, I couldn't speak to her so I sent an email
JR - your email said to remind SP

not to talk with anyone involved with the i/x, or other members of staff why
GM - that's the OfS policy on i/x
JR - what's the template for support letter for suspended staff
GM - its a OfS policy resource, not in the body of policy, but a resource to be used

JR - I have no further questions.
J - we will take a 10 minute break, feel free to bring back water or soft drink, G&T might be pushing it.
Court rises.
End of Morning Part 1.

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