Thread by @tribunaltweets

We are due to begin live tweeting day 9 of Peggie v Fife Health Board and Dr Upton at the earlier time of 9.30am.
Today is the final day of evidence and will begin with Dr Maggie Currer returning to the witness box.

A reminder about our reporting:

An admonition from the Judge for future witnesses:

Our earlier reporting and associated press articles are on our Substack.

Please consider taking out a paid subscription to support our work:
tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fi…

J [discussing expected timings of chief and cross examination - using the term "will not exceed". Reminds MC still under oath [J leaves to remove visuals of spill over room]

NC I'll start w yr awareness of t status. U appointed [cant hear well] U said "was I aware?"

NC Its obvious DU is M?
MC I dont agree
NC I suggest that obv not giving u new info but had his PC in mind when u interviewed him. A shot across bows
MC I dont know why she did
NC U must have heard of trouble he's caused at WB?
MC I wasnt aware

NC [new doc] Look at response to Q11 - EP's Ix notes mtg w AG. [reads re unknown members of staff and info sharing betwn consultant anf jrs] Clare heard that Beth wld be allowed to use the CR. What did Clare Stewart said
MC I cant help as wasnt there
NC U have monthly cons mtg

MC Yes
NC EP said IBs advice was discussed at mtg
MC We have weekly mtgs involving diff ppl. Monthly involve nursing staff. I dont attend all mtgs due to roster
NC Re contact w IB before DU started work. Go to p1186: Mrs Davidson said y'd taken advice from IB before DU starte

MC Was after she was appointed. Certainly in the 1st month. Assume 21 Aug a typo. Yes I spoke to IB
NC This isnt routine, talking to IB
No
NC Did u consider these factors. Needs somewhere to change
Yes
NC F and M only CR
Yes
NC Du not comfy in M only
Yes

Continues list incl HE wouldnt want to use M
NC Did u think what other space he cld use?
MC Yes. Is M and F in ED altho classed as locker rooms. GN staff toilets in dept in disbled toilet. Also M and F CR downstairs. Consultants change in office area which is reasonable.

Only toilets are GN in dept. one GN in ? only used by ?
NC Re consultants
MC Not gendered. Occas we use the toilet if busy
NC There are ad hoc store rooms in dept
Yes, but multi use and may not be free
NC Reasons why use this one room, eg religious or trauma reasons
Yes
NC

MC It doesnt make u a bigot to want to tke yr clothes off in front of anyone
NC Ibadvised that DU had right to F CR as IDed as F
MC Yes, entitled to use CR of G she IDd as so we followed advice
NC U didnt pass this info to those using F CR
MC No as clnt violate s'ones confid

NC But u agreed a risk F staff might object, wldnt it be prident to know what coming to deal w onjections at first so he's be welcomed
MC Decisions made on risk to an indiv and to dept. I know ppl aware before started that trans. Wasnt partic aware anyone wld be concerned.

LM between gps is separate. No concerns raised and other spaces can be used to change. Dont think advertising DUs t status wld be right thing to do
NC Left them to find out 1 by 1 by surprise, made it harder for them to challenge this didnt it.
MC Separation betwn mgmt of nursi

and med staff. ED had already raised w IB.
NC Made it more personal didnt it? Left them to find out, so had to do it in a personal way re DU than about a policy
MC Not sure if agree. Cld say unhappy w rule
NC S'one had to be the 1st to object. Take real courage in a twaw dept?

MC Can u repeat the Q [does]
NC All the senior staff saying twaw and only a bigot wld refuse
MC Wld use the term bigot
NC Are u saying wld be easy to say I dont feel safe
MC Our dept gen is described as open. Feedback from ex workers. Hope ppl wld feel able to raise concerns

MC Wld have imagined convos wld happen and ppl come 4wd as a group if they were unhappy. Am only aware of 1 who raised concerns. Wld have had opp to discuss concerns beforehand in our flat heirachy
NC [new doc] this email "Catch Up"..asking u to agree, Has Re: here. Once a repl

you get a colon. Do u agree?
MC Yes
NC [p1253] Email of ?12 Jan to KS, ED the Ixer, LC, LH and DU's LM
MC Can I say ED had been removed as Ixer
NC Who told you
MC Esther
NC Did u know Ix til end Jan
MC Not aware. Not part of process

NC Yr v busy in the chain. Putting limits to info sharing beyond the group, updating re mygs w ED and DU, condemnation of the C, praising DU for coming 4wd for benefit of all. Preventing foot in mouth syndrome. Being busy
Yes
Setting up a working gp
MC Doing what it says

NC Y're clear about what side u want the board to take
MC Not my intention
NC Yr important in the dept
MC Not really. Flat heirachy so no more imp than my colleagues
NC Any replies to email
MC I dont think so
NC You hesitated. Bearing in mind may be more email searches for

more legal action how confident are u?
MC I didnt find a reply
NC Potentially 3 possibilities: set up an informal WG but were ignored, You set up a busy email group successfully w some traffic on it not produced, or thirdly someone said this email cld be FiM syndrome so lets

take offline
MC I disagree w yr framing. I set it up. No-one replied and the end of it
NC Are u confident that not a quantity of chat somewhere else eg WhatsApp
MC I dont use FB. No Teams or WA chat on this
NC This email chain - has no Re: LH, LC, ED and ? on p279

NC Look at email 12.01.24 at 9.47 at bottom of page has the same recipients? But for addition of DU?
MC It does but arrangement of recipients is different
NC Is typical. Sometimes u remove names within header
MC No. I dont routinely do this. I normally hit reply all

NC Says Re: but subject line the same in the FiM email
MC Yes, it does but it doesnt incl FiM email as part of the trail
NC We have a mystery. That 12.01 email which then goes to emails betwn ED and DU. It looks like a reply but dont see what a reply to
MC Nothing there

MC [missed]
NC Look at chain above on p276 on 18.01, ED says to DU [reads re progressing Ix wanting a statement] Clear ED is Ixing
MC Yes
NC U didnt raise the alarm that she shldnt Ix, as is a witness. Why was that?

MC Really dont know. was 18 months ago. Poss I didnt register it
NC Had FiM group decided better ED did IX
MC There was no WG. We werent in control of Ix and none of medical staff decision makers as person being Ix was member of nursing staff

NC Do u agree the FiM email was grossly improper thing to do?
MC I dont agree
NC Unwise thing to do?
MC U ask me to look at it w hindsight but didnt write w hindsight. At time was discomfort in dept due to incident. Was made clear not to discuss, and I felt important that sr

members knew what was happening. If discussion we cld then direct ppl approp. Felt important to keep ppl up to date. wanted no errors to be made. I know I made an error saying SP had been referred. Other than that I dont think was incorrect to keep sr ppl up to date

NC When did ED say she cldnt Ix?
MC I dont recall
NC How can u have thought it acceptable...the Cs lawyers didnt receive FiM email until 4 Apr. Were u the person who provided it
MC I undertook an email search. I think it was found by someone else. I found it but I dont know

when I found it
NC U dont know if they already had it from s'one lese
Correct
NC When were u asked to look
MC Dont recall but after the 1st hearing
NC Not until after Feb
MC Not that I recollect
NC Anyone searching wld find emails in 723?
MC Wld need to recall search terms

, but likely
NC Only asked after Feb 25. Yr sure?
Yes
NC Did u decide to keep this back and appaleed when s'one found it?
MC No I didnt
NC Email wld obvs compromise the Ix
[sound glitch]
NC It was bound to due to condemnation and praise and involving a no of witnesses

NC Can u not see the problem?
MC At that time, the Ix not completed. The reported behav unacceptable. One issue with B&H is impossible to think about if dont know about it. Didnt compromise as behav already known. If reported behav had happedned was unacceptable

MC We cant Ix if we dont know about it. The issue has to be raised. It takes courage to come forward.
NC One compromising issue was KS, in the gp, Admitted making a wholly unacceptable approach to Rehana
MC I didnt know that
NC When did u learn about it
MC After initial hear

NC Have u been reading online?
MC No. At that point (first hearing?) was no restriction on me
NC Rehana was too intimidated to get involved. As all senior staff behind DU is understandable isnt it
MC No
NC [new page]

NC Re's email to AG responding to AGs appraoch for a statement. Reading her reply she doesnt sound intimidated?
MC Hard to tell from a profess presented 3 line email
NC Going back to p1253, u mention [reads re updating Beth] Purpose of mtg

MC To reassure wldnt be working w SP
NC Move on to ref...
JR Maybe the stenographer wants a break?
J It's not quite an hour but up to you
NC It's convenient now
J Ok. We'll have a 5 min break
[SESSION ENDS]

@threadreaderapp unroll