Thread by @tribunaltweets

We return for Day 4, pm session #2 of Toshack vs GeoAmey Ltd, from the Edinburgh Employment Tribunal. We expect to resume at 3.20 pm

J affirms the next witness - information c hearing - and microphone from MM.

JS John Sinclair
MM How long worked for GA
JS ??
MM Have you come through Reliance and G4S
JS Yes
MM What does training manager involve
JS The role is training requirements, custody officer

JS also with team, operational
MM Job title - you said account director
JS ??
MM Accountable to him for performance of training dept?
JS Yes
MM Your background previously?
JS Served in regular army, tank regiment
MM Have you done a variety of jobs on contract?
JS Started as

JS custody officer. Seconded to training
[apologies, sound esp for witness is v bad]
MM You have operational experience in the contract?
JS Y
MM DT - you were asked to do appeal hearing?
JS Y
MM By whom?
JS Susan Pollock
MM [to page 579/581] This is DT's appeal. Seen before
JS Y

MM CH letter to DT of dismissal. Other docs. Part of appeal. You have seen docs before.
JS Yes
MM SH doc to you and SP. Do you know when typed up.
JS No
MM But you received copy
JS y
MM Did you speak to anyone before to gather information?
JS Yes - [gives names but unclear]

MM These individuals were on ITC with DT. Why did you speak to them
JS ??
MM So just for background?
JS yes
MM And spoke to SH and CH as well
JS Yes
MM No dispute DT didn't want hearing. Happy for you to arrived at decision by looking at paperwork?
JS yes

MM [Reads c decision taken on 14th January.] Don't think that's right, is it. Should be 7th. Is that an error?
JS yes
MM Failure to comply with policies is reason for dismissal.
JS Yes. ..
MM We will come go grounds of appeal. This is factual background.

MM [to doc, DT factual background] This is structure of his appeal.
MM Your response to DT saying making it clear re my beliefs re GC.
MM You say re you in week 1 your opinions may be counter to the law and this is GA policy. What are you referring to re law

JS My understanding is that they should be treated as the id they want to id as
MM would they need a GRC or not to be treated thus
JS Don't understand
MM Had you spoken to SH.
MM You refer to DT presenting in aggressive way on 7th. Not dismissed for aggression
JS no

MM So why reference in letter
JS DT was on probation. If DT had a probationary review he could have been dismissed
MM Yes - you say here under wrongful dismissal. Within six month probation period co has right to terminate
JS Yes
MM For clarity - DT says he believes dismissal

MM disproportionate. It is my beliefs - I would not act in way to discriminate against TP. This is your view
JS Yes
MM You go on to say not dismissed for expressing beliefs, Why dismissed.
JS My understanding was DT wouldn't follow policy/procedures. Not cos of his beliefs.

MM You go on to say you don't uphold this ground of appeal and your decision is final. is the end of the matter?
JS Yes
MM No further qs
DH Good afternoon. I represent DT in these proceedings. My microphone is dead.
[they swop mics - DH's sound is now worse]
DH In general terms,

DH after coming back from leave, did you get any information from CH c what had happened with DT
[discussion c bad sound for observers and mics]
J Will ask clerk to come up.
J Only suggestion is you have my mic.
DH I asked you re any conversations with anyone

re DT before appeal
JS [replies ... but sound]
DH You just said DT would have been mentioned in meeting when you came back. Do you remember CH telling you c DT
JS No
DH Once you became involved as appeal officer you told MM you spoke to a number of ppl including CH
JS Yes

DH All we have c any other person you spoke to was SH on p 585. Email attached. Did you ask SH to send you something, hence getting this email.
JS Can't recall.
DH Did you ask anyone else to give you anything in writing.
JS No
DH So nothing missing from these docs
JS ?

DH So main evidence is notes of 7th Jan mtg?
JS Yes
DH If I suggest CH didn't talk to you c DT dismissal.
JS [??]
DH If I suggest you didn't speak to CH about this
JS ??
DH Re your understanding of law re t prisoners. Have you encountered the phrase GC beliefs before
JS no

DH Do you understand them
JS no
DH [explains GC beliefs] Do you have a view
JS No. Policy
DH Have you heard of EA
JS Yes
DH Aware of PCs in EA?
JS yes
DH Include religious / philosophical belief
JS yes. [unclear]

DH You have read DT appeal letter
JS yes
DH You have been taken to ground 2 on p 581. [reads] DT stated as matter of conscience would find it difficult to express myself in ways that went against my deeply held beliefs.
DH It's obvious why DT was refusing to do things - cos of

link with his beliefs.
JS Yes. But appeal not c his beliefs. It was that he refused on more than one occasion to carry out duties.
DH You looked at 7th Jan notes. DT there also making connection between GC belief and what he was saying not comfortable doing.
JS yes

DH He made that connection at time.
JS yes
DH Did you get assistance from HR?
JS ??
DH Did Miss Pollock give you any steer re making decision?
JS We talked but ??
DH Did you take advice from HR re beliefs / DT
JS Talked to HR but DT refused to ??

DH You've said not to do with beliefs but DT refusal to follow policy. But refusal is cos of DT beliefs.
JS DT beliefs in organisation - needs to be carried out but he wasn't prepared to do that. Many staff - his refusal to do that.
DH Did you think DT was in wrong c beliefs

JS It was refusal to act within operational - one person doing one thing.
DH No further qs
J - Any result from your discussions.
DH We will hear from witness tomorrow. Should be short.

J May be more efficient to have evidence and then have clear day
J If he comes at 10, hour/hour and a half.
DH Maximum
J And what about exchanging subs?
J We are fast readers. Exchange written subs at 1. If we come back at 2 or 3 for comments on subs.
J We can decide on the day

[They agree on 2.30 for now]
J And provide authorities. If you have any obscure judgments I might not have seen please give links.
MM I have no first instance cases. I always give citations and a paragraph - identifying particular part within an authority.

J So Wednesday morning. Then subs in the afternoon with time to exchange submissions.
J We will adjourn now and reconvene at 10am on Wednesday.
[ENDS]

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