@Lead1225 It occurs to me that, to the extent this classification is adequate, one like it applies to Christians also. So let me see what corresponds to each. I suggest:
1 Psychagogues
2 Preachers of hell
3 Apologists
4 Theologians
@Lead1225 “Psychagogue” means “soul leader” in Greek. This was the name Socrates gave those who use rhetoric not to manipulate the souls/minds of others for selfish purposes, but medicinally, to lead them toward wisdom and virtue.
@Lead1225 These are the Christians who don’t necessarily make arguments, or not ones in depth, but who speak to others person to person, heart to heart, and give witness. They touch souls, usually not primarily through the intellect.
@Lead1225@JK_Riki The analog to atheist “provocateurs”, the category I called “the blasphemers” would be the preachers of hellfire. The firebrand “you are headed straight to hell if you don’t accept Christ” types. They are obnoxious and self-righteous, just as the blasphemers are among atheists.
@Lead1225@JK_Riki I also find this approach off-putting and overly combative. Found most often among quasi-heretical American fundamentalist Protestants, I don’t really know any clear examples, since I don’t hang out with this sort.
@Lead1225@JK_Riki You will have noticed that I only quote Holy Scripture either to (1) express a Christian teaching or (2) allow a point to be made very concisely because it is perfectly said. I don’t appeal to Holy Scripture in arguments—few do, although SOME atheists treats us ALL as this type.
@Lead1225@JK_Riki To be fair, his combative, no-holds-barred approach might put Max Kolbe in this category more often than most of my acquaintances. He can sometimes be quite harsh—to the point atheists use guilt by association fallacies, as if his very name is odious.
The “apologists” proper are indeed "defenders of the faith.” They are also in part caretakers of their fellow Christians. The do get into arguments but they also generally work for peace and to uplift and upbuild the spirit.
SJ Thomason “Christian Apologist” is an apologist. 😀
By “theologians” I don’t mean academic theologians nor what the Orthodox Church means, the saints who have been called to set forth the λόγος of God (there are only four)—but those who argue for Christian faith on a more abstract and philosophical level.
What we call “metaphysics” is not Aristotles term for it: he calls it either “First Philosophy” or “Theology.”
“Theology” is thus “philosophy that pertains to the highest things, the divine things, the FIRST THINGS.”
Clearly, I’m one of these, a “theologian” in THIS sense.
I’m not comparing myself to St. John the Theologian, although like many of my type, I’m drawn to his Gospel and whatever sets it apart from the Synoptic Gospels.
Isn’t it funny we have a word for “the three Gospels that aren’t John’s”?
Let me emphasize that these categories are NOT mutually exclusive, like the atheist categories are not. We all wear different hats, but there’s a “more or less” where we fall.
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As Putnam notes, the fact/value dichotomy fails because it never manages to actually distinguish the two entirely, due to a kind of necessary entanglement (or kinds) between putative "facts" and "values."
What we have is a situation of distinction where in some facts are not values, some facts are values, some values are facts, and some values are not facts.
What we do not have is a fact/value dichotomy which amounts to a metaphysical dualism.
This is one of my rules. I use language quite carefully. When someone response to something I have said by calling it "word salad," nothing is lost by blocking them.
There is no possibility they are being an honest interlocutor.
Anyone with more that a child's level of acquaintance with theology should understand that talk about God will always be quite unlike talk about anything else, unlike talk about any creature (which everything but God is).
This does *seem like* a huge incoherence in transgender ideology.
It seems as if it is absurd on its face to say that children can consent to medical "transition" and a lifetime of medicalization and sterilization, but not consent to smoking a cigarette or having a beer.
An honest atheist (if there were such a thing) might say that he does not believe in an uncreated creator. No!—he must pretend that the concept of an uncreated creator is nonsense!
As if everything that does an action need be susceptible to such an action!
A lot of picture-thinkers will form an image of what’s being talked about and then think something that only belongs to the image belongs to the idea itself. Which in turn causes them to miss/reject other cases that instantiate the idea but don’t fit their particular image.
Descartes gives an example of the limits of substituting pictures/the imagination from concepts/the intellect:
Consider a chiliagon, a thousand-sided figure with equal sides. Conceptually, this is easy to understand, but it is impossible to picture clearly and distinctly.