Seth Abramson Profile picture
Aug 25, 2019 20 tweets 5 min read Read on X
(UPDATE) WASHINGTON POST and MOTHER JONES articles confirm that Trump Jr. had *two* encounters with the Butina/Torshin team at the 2016 NRA conference in Louisville.

May 19, 2016 (Trump Jr./Torshin): motherjones.com/politics/2018/…
May ?, 2016 (Trump Jr./Butina): washingtonpost.com/local/public-s…
(UPDATE2) On May 19, 2016, Butina was a "last-minute" addition as a speaker at an offsite dinner, the Heroes for Freedom and Liberty Dinner—cocktails at 5PM, dinner at 7PM. She spoke for only 5 minutes—which is odd.

Story: courier-journal.com/story/news/201…
Invite: google.com/search?biw=128…:
(UPDATE3) The reason that Maria Butina appearing for only 5 minutes at the May 19, 2016 offsite dinner is so odd is that it was this *very dinner* that Alexander Torshin had invited Donald Trump Sr. to (via two separate communications) two weeks earlier. nytimes.com/2017/11/17/us/…
(UPDATE4) Flight data for Trump Sr.'s plane, obtained via FOIA, confirms that Trump Sr. didn't arrive in Louisville until Friday, May 20, 2016, the day after his son dined with Torshin *onsite* (at the conference), i.e. Thursday, May 19. That same night, Butina spoke *offsite*.
(UPDATE5)

1) Butina didn't meet Jr. when Torshin did (onsite, May 19).
2) Torshin invited Jr. to an offsite event on May 19.
3) Butina appeared instead as a "last-minute" add.
4) The event began at 5.
5) Butina told Byrne she brought Jr. to a second site at 2PM the day they met.
(UPDATE6) There are many ways this could have played out, and one *is* that Butina met Jr. separately from Torshin, but only briefly.

But the timeline is also consistent with Butina bringing Jr. to an offsite location the afternoon of his *onsite* dinner meeting with Torshin.
(UPDATE7) So why, when they were mentor/mentee, would Torshin/Butina have met Jr. at different times and/or locations? Why not at the same time/location? Our assumption would be "same"; Butina told Byrne "different" and indeed events confirm Butina and Torshin split up on May 19.
(UPDATE8) So Byrne's story accords with the facts in a way that seems prescient and isn't what one would've assumed were one spitballing. Butina told Byrne she met Jr. offsite—and lo and behold, she went offsite "last-minute" and indeed did *not* meet Jr. when Torshin did onsite.
(UPDATE9) So Torshin invited the Trump campaign to send someone to meet him at a dinner he (Torshin) ultimately *skipped*. Instead, Torshin changed his plans and went to the dinner Jr. was at. How did he know to do that? Butina meeting Jr. that afternoon at 2PM would explain it.
(UPDATE10) It'd also explain Butina being a "last-minute" add to a dinner *she and Torshin had been planning to go to for weeks*. Once she got Jr. offsite at 2PM she wasn't sure—post-meet—which of the dinners she'd go to. Torshin sent her to the original one—as he met Jr. onsite.
(UPDATE11) I want to make sure everyone follows:

1/ Putin tells Torshin to meet Trump in Louisville.
2/ Torshin invites Trump to a specific dinner—twice.
3/ Torshin says he'll give Trump a gift for Melania at the dinner.
4/ Torshin skips the dinner.
5/ But ends up where Jr. is.
(UPDATE12)

6/ Butina tells Byrne she met Jr. in Louisville.
7/ Articles confirm.
8/ Torshin/Jr. say Butina wasn't at their meetup.
9/ Articles confirm a second (Butina-Jr.) meetup.
10/ Butina says she met Jr. offsite.
11/ Butina was offsite.
12/ But oddly unsure of her schedule.
(UPDATE13) Nearly every Trump-Russia suspect has had a lawyer lie for them. Butina's lawyer now says "no second meeting"—which if true (but it *isn't*), would mean either Butina was at the Torshin-Jr. meeting (and they lied) or she lied about meeting Jr. *and* the news lied, too.
(UPDATE14) When you consider that Butina is a convicted Kremlin agent, Torshin has fled the country, Jr. repeatedly lied to Congress, and Trump-Russia suspects' lawyers have lied front to back, we have to go by the news and things people said when they didn't know it'd be public.
(UPDATE15) *Well before* she knew she was going to get in trouble, Butina told her boyfriend she'd met Jr. offsite. Articles confirm she met Jr. and was offsite.

Torshin, Jr., and Butina's lawyers now say Butina never met Jr. and there was no second meeting.

Oh, who to believe!
(PS) There's nothing about Torshin/Butina in the Mueller Report. Mueller sent the case to another prosecutor—which kept it from being shut down if he was fired—and referred all counterintelligence info (which includes all info he got on Butina/Torshin) to FBI counterintelligence.
(PS2) So if you're wondering, "Why haven't we heard more about May '16?" the answer is that a) it was addressed in another case, b) even in that case, any information about Trump campaign-Russian collusion *not attached to a criminal statute* would've gone to counterintelligence.
(PS3) You'll note I haven't called a secret Butina-Jr. meeting illegal. I've said what would be illegal would be Jr. thereafter lying about a meeting—as he's lied about other items—under circumstances in which lying is a crime. That no one will investigate it doesn't change that.
(PS4) That said, if Jr. did at the meeting what his conduct thereafter almost guarantees he would've done—asked for Russian aid, which is a crime—*then* you'd have a crime (as well as the necessary evidence of "concealment" from authorities that suggests a criminal mens rea).
(PS5) As ever, this feed is a public cri de coeur for Congress to launch a full Trump-Russia investigation and for FBI Counterintelligence to release the report it's still withholding—to a large extent—even from Congress. But there's little here I/we can say we "know" for *sure*.

• • •

Missing some Tweet in this thread? You can try to force a refresh
 

Keep Current with Seth Abramson

Seth Abramson Profile picture

Stay in touch and get notified when new unrolls are available from this author!

Read all threads

This Thread may be Removed Anytime!

PDF

Twitter may remove this content at anytime! Save it as PDF for later use!

Try unrolling a thread yourself!

how to unroll video
  1. Follow @ThreadReaderApp to mention us!

  2. From a Twitter thread mention us with a keyword "unroll"
@threadreaderapp unroll

Practice here first or read more on our help page!

More from @SethAbramson

Nov 8
(📢) PROOF EXCLUSIVE: Proof of Consequences, Vol. 1: Where America Goes Now

🔗:

This one is nearly book-length, but it’s a barnburner. It’s FREE with a one-week trial of PROOF, a Top 25 U.S. Politics substack.

Please RETWEET this so everyone can see it. sethabramson.substack.com/p/proof-of-con…Image
1/ A lot of people are asking me whether the lengthy report above—like I said, it is probably nearly book-length (and surely novella-length)—will address the allegations now floating around social media that the 2024 presidential election was stolen.
2/ Many of you probably do not know that I got my start in so-called bigtime national political journalism in 2004—bigtime, at least, in the sense that major media outlets (e.g. ROLLING STONE) covered my political journalism. At the time I was mostly focused on the 2004 election.
Read 36 tweets
Nov 7
Just a quick note here in advance of Trump and Musk crashing the economy in 2025: Trump voters are going to blame Democrats for that too.

Read up on fascism and cults and stop assuming we have a rational electorate that’s actually looking at economic indicators. It simply isn’t.
If anyone is looking ahead to 2025 and thinking that when Donald Trump breaks things, kills people, ends alliances and treaties, and endangers all of us he’ll be blamed for it, think again. You can’t *imagine* the degree of pain he’ll need to cause people before they turn on him.
Trump is a proxy for issues in people and culture Democrats can’t resolve via politics. He is a fever that will either kill this country dead or bring it so close to death—and I mean spectacularly, painfully close to death—that the fever breaks. Democrats better learn that quick.
Read 7 tweets
Nov 6
(🧵) ELECTION THREAD: I’ve been waiting all night to say anything substantive about what’s happened, as I felt—I still do—that I might say something I’d regret.

I hope you’ll consider following along as I try to process this with you all, and try to do it responsibly. Please RT. Image
1/ The New York Times gives Trump more a 90% chance of winning the election. Barring a miracle—and none is on the horizon at present—he will win.

And if by some miracle Harris won, it would be such a shock that it would almost certainly cause widespread Trumpist violence anyway.
2/ He isn’t just winning. At present this is shaping up to be a landslide. This is not Harris doing as Biden did. This is not Harris doing as Clinton did. This is Harris losing Texas by 15, Florida by 13, Iowa by 14, Ohio by 11...

This is Trump *wildly* outperforming all polls.
Read 36 tweets
Nov 4
(📢) MAJOR BREAKING NEWS: Donald Trump and MAGA's Kremlin Allies Planning Terrorist Attacks Inside the United States; Trump and MAGA's Support for Putin and Russia Remains Unaffected By Prospect of September 11th-Style Attacks Committed By Their America-Hating Political Partners Image
MORE/ Retweet this widely so that all Americans can understand that the Kremlin and Trump have exactly the same political agenda—to stoke not just figurative but actual chaos and mayhem across the United States. MAGA is an anti-American political movement. wsj.com/world/russia-p…
PS/ Here's what you *won't* see in light of the news of coming 9/11-style terror attacks committed by Putin, the Kremlin, and Russia: you won't see Trump distance himself from Putin, the Kremlin or Russia. You won't see MAGAs distance themselves from Putin, the Kremlin or Russia.
Read 5 tweets
Nov 3
This is... maybe the most horrifying political ad I have ever seen.

Partly because of the content, partly because it's a reasonable portrayal of the world we are in and will be heading deeper into if we men don't vote in massive numbers for Kamala Harris.
I hesitated to post this, because it is so deeply upsetting.

But then I asked myself a simple question: is it accurate? Are women dying because of the decisions of Republican congressmen? And the answer is yes.

The answer is yes.

And *men* need to help put a stop to this evil.
F*ck—this ad made me cry.

As a husband, all I can think about is my wife. I can't imagine being in a situation like this and being utterly helpless. But there are now many men like me nationwide who are going through this.

My heart breaks for their wives. And for them.

My God.
Read 4 tweets
Nov 2
(🧵) I don’t pretend to be an expert on women voters. I can only say what I see them saying on my social media feeds (1.2M+ followers): they don’t like that he’s a serial adulterer, serial sexual predator, and adjudicated rapist who wants to control their bodies and healthcare. Image
(🧵) They don’t like that he serially sexually harassed women on TV. They don’t like that he repeatedly cheated on Melania—Steve Bannon says with at least 100 women, including while Melania was pregnant—and hasn’t been faithful to any woman he’s been with. theweek.com/donald-trump/6…
(🧵) They don’t like how he said in 2016 that he thought women should be “punished” for getting an abortion. They don’t find him miming multiple sex acts with a microphone—this was yesterday—funny or charming. They don’t like the 28 Sexual Assault or Rape allegations against him.
Read 30 tweets

Did Thread Reader help you today?

Support us! We are indie developers!


This site is made by just two indie developers on a laptop doing marketing, support and development! Read more about the story.

Become a Premium Member ($3/month or $30/year) and get exclusive features!

Become Premium

Don't want to be a Premium member but still want to support us?

Make a small donation by buying us coffee ($5) or help with server cost ($10)

Donate via Paypal

Or Donate anonymously using crypto!

Ethereum

0xfe58350B80634f60Fa6Dc149a72b4DFbc17D341E copy

Bitcoin

3ATGMxNzCUFzxpMCHL5sWSt4DVtS8UqXpi copy

Thank you for your support!

Follow Us!

:(