Thread by @Conaw

In the spirit of Christmas, I'll do a @vgr style ratchet of one tweet per like on the intersection of

Jesus
Evolution
The Simulation Argument
Julian Jaynes
&
Predictive Processing

No cap. No deadline either though.

@vgr 1. To give you a taste test of my worldview -- the first piece of writing I ever did in the neighborhood of this topic was an epistle to @KevinSimler I wrote in 2017, trying to convert him to my learning cult.

Published to github with his encouragement

gist.github.com/Conaws/c603893…

@vgr @KevinSimler 2. I take as an axiom, an article of faith - this idea

"If there is a God, surely he would prefer honest questioning to blindfolded fear"

It's a bastardization of this quote - but it was how I remembered it, and more than quote itself, it has been the grounding of my faith/life

@vgr @KevinSimler 3. Now we'll start in earnest

John 1:1-5 ESV

"In the beginning was the word."

Word here is coming from the Greek "Logos"

Which I read as "Pattern" and "Order"

The claim is: There is an underlying order to all things - God is, and emerged from that.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos

@vgr @KevinSimler 4. In Quantum field theory - as I understand it from the Children's Picture-book Introduction series I got from Ribbonfarm -- a similar claim is made.

In the beginning there was the field. There is a pattern beneath all things, from which all is made

ribbonfarm.com/2015/08/20/qft/

@vgr @KevinSimler 5. There is an order beneath all things - and Jesus was that pattern made flesh - that's the central claim I take away from Christianity.

And it doesn't conflict remotely for me with the ideas that

1) Humans Evolved

2) Religions are the result of a memetic evolutionary process

@vgr @KevinSimler 6. To me Jesus could be "The Word Made Flesh" even if there was never a Palestinian Jew named Jesus who lived, healed the sick, was crucified under Pontius Pilot, or rose from the dead.

Jesus, as a living thing, is as real now as the chair you're sitting on.

@vgr @KevinSimler 7. First started thinking about the idea of Jesus being the result of an evolutionary process in college -- when I saw the intensely anti-religious conspiracy theory documentary Zeitgeist

@vgr @KevinSimler 8. There is a good argument that the story of Jesus was a chimera of a number of other middle eastern gods working their way back into Judaism / Rome

The Egyptian God Horus - similar origin story to Jesus

@vgr @KevinSimler 9. Horus - similar life and death arc to Jesus

(I'm skeptical these match up as closely in fact as presented in the film -- but seem to be some connections -- see here beliefmap.org/jesus-existed/…)

@vgr @KevinSimler 10. Again - not precisely sure how close all these gods match the description on the slides - but definitely some common narrative elements here -- would be good to map out in @RoamResearch

Many elements in the story of Jesus that had been "sticky" across many prior cultures

@vgr @KevinSimler @RoamResearch 11. Now I'm going to be taking some entheogens soon (in preparation for Midnight Mass), so won't do a huge amount of this thread tonight

But I'll leave you with some of the better links - so you can pursue this rabbit hole over Christmas if you so wish.

@vgr @KevinSimler @RoamResearch 12. The important question for me is - what does it mean for a thing to "live"?

Can an idea, or thought pattern, be as alive as physical organism?

I say this "something is alive if it takes in elements of the environment and transforms them into itself"

Metabolism is life

@vgr @KevinSimler @RoamResearch 13. Ideas, stories, behavior patterns are ALIVE because your neurons are basically single celled organisms that have their own agency, and have to be connected to live circuits to stay alive

This is how brain plasticity works, and why demons are real

meltingasphalt.com/neurons-gone-w…

@vgr @KevinSimler @RoamResearch 14. So let's say Jesus is the offspring of Horus, and Mithra, and Dionysus and Krishna et al.

What was special about him?

The heart of it - and one thing I hope we think about this Christmas is the CHAOS MAGICK OF FORGIVENESS!!!

via @vgr on blockchains
ribbonfarm.com/2017/05/25/blo…

15. Jesus was a construction worker who hung out with hookers.

Lot of folks in SF can get down with that.

But he also hung out with tax collectors. Roman tax collectors, taking money for the govt that just sacked your country!

What you think of Trump collaborators, but worse!

16. The fact that meme has stuck, and been the basis for so much of the world we live in today, says something deep about the human condition.

That people want to & can believe that the most perfect man who lived spent his time pouring love out on the most outcast and abandoned.

17. You can doubt the stories of Christianity. You can doubt the rules people derive from it. Call out the hypocrisy (as Jesus did) of people who are trying to lay out God's laws on earth.

But let it sink in that there are humans who BELIEVE in a God like Jesus.

A God of love.

18. The fact that this is the memetic superstructure... That God is someone you've put in the outgroup.

That God loves you if you're in the outgroup.

And this memeplex works?

If you're a cynic watching history from an outside view, maybe be surprised?

slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-c…

19. Jumping back to high level

A religion is a superorganism speaking to itself.

20. If you ask a lot of folks in the SF burner set for affiliation they'd say they're "Spiritual but not religious"

What they mean is

"If I want to believe in Crystals and Chakras, I'm going to, leave me the hell alone"

I'm not into that...

21. I want that OLD TYME RELIGION that asks

"What do WE believe TOGETHER"

And says, if we agree that we believe that quartz tunes your harmonic resonators to eternal goodness...

Well then you know damn well we're going to dig up as much quartz as we can and build a temple.

22. While we're at it, everybody call off work for a day every month to come lay in this quartz palace and get synced up with the good vibes.

23. Some likely controversial takes

There have probably been hundreds of thousands of actively gay Catholic priests.

I believe very many of them had a very healthy relationship with their sexuality and with God.

Not all, not always, and probably not the easiest path to walk

24. Sexual sin is overhyped.

If you're worried about sin, worry about the sermon on the mount where Jesus says hating someone is as great a sin as murder.

Do you hate Trump, or Hitler?

Congrats you killer, you can relax about your bedroom politics until you deal with that.

25. Catholic guilt is a failure mode.

The point of confession, and of sacrifice of the cross in the Christian memeplex is Jesus settled all your debts.

You can fuck up, you're going to fuck up, that doesn't make YOU a fuck up.

Forgive yourself, forgive those who fucked u over

26. The main message of the tale of Sodom and Gommoreh isn't about homosexuality -- it's that you shouldn't try to rape angels.

Dont try to rape angels. This will probably get you smote.

27. Conciousness is an algorithm that as far as we know is run on biological hardware, but no reason to believe it can only run on this hardware.

You wouldn't know any better if you were living in the Matrix without a physical body.

28. The simulation argument is super compelling, and highly relevant to anyone interested in questions regarding

Heaven
Hell
Reincarnation
Theology
Metaphysics

Read it

simulation-argument.com

29. There is absolutely no reason to assume we live in base reality.

Even if you disagree with the premise in the simulation argument that we'll eventually be able to run ancestor simulations in this universe.

No reason couldn't be a more complex outside ours & we're lofi sims.

30. Watch this 30 min talk, one of the most mind bending talks on the internet. I'll touch on a number of ideas in it, and logical extensions of them throughout the thread

Touches both the singularity and the simulation argument

vimeo.com/54718573

31. If we live in a multiverse there can be hard physical boundaries between them and still be porous to information and communication

If the end of evolution is a superintelligence, there will be many "gods" in the different universes who communicate by simulating each other.

32. In Wendy Donniger's The Hindus, there is a story of Brahma and Vishnu arguing over who is superior

Brahma says - "fly into my stomach"

Vishnu does, and finds them having the argument inside Brahma.

Vishnu says - "fly into my head"

Brahma does.. finds the same there too.

33. For a non-hindu Donniger's work is a fantastic introduction, filled with primary source material.

Excellent source of trippy ideas about structure of reality in Hinduism - recursion all over the place if you know how to see it.

amazon.com/Hindus-Alterna…

34. The brahma vishnu debate is quite likely true - if we live in a multiverse that's already filled with superintelligences running simulations as communication channels.

These "gods" may also have desires to influence universes outside their own. (Utility functions)

35. The "gods" could influence one another purely though these channels, without physically breaking a barrier between universes though the process of "acausal trade"

Intro to that concept here

agentfoundations.org/item?id=1465

36. If you think about this - trade and influence happening between agents who will never be able to physically interact, you can see that information itself is a higher dimension that unites the multiverse.

The "logos" or "pattern" applies across and unites all of the lil gods.

37. Hinduism isnt really polytheistic - there is the unifying force of Atman - which is what the Sadhus seek.

But in Atman there isn't really good or bad. It is outside of your preferences, and not going to answer your prayers for better grades in school.

The smaller gods might

38. Ok back to planet earth.

Christianity talks a lot about original sin, and the "brokenness of man" as source of our suffering and turning from God.

This is true... but there's a better word for it.

Intergenerational Trauma.

39. We'll get back to this, and to how religion can actually help heal this trauma, but first we need to grab Predictive Processing.

The best source on this is "Surfing Uncertainty"

Slate Star Codex has a great review/ summary - but read the book too!

slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/05/boo…

40. The important idea in predictive processing - your expectations of what you think is currently happening / will happen literally changes what you see.

This system can reinforce.

Seeing is believing, and believing is seeing.

41. As an example, if someone has a neutral expression on their face, but your "top down" model predicts they are angry with you - your eyes will distort their micro expressions to appear angry, your ears will hear anger in their voice, even if it's something else.