Thread by @XiranJayZhao

MDZS/The Untamed Cultural Annotation Thread 5: Names Part 2, since I'm still getting questions about them

First things first: Cangse Sanren and Baoshan Sanren are not names. They're titles that just share their last two characters, which mean something like "leisuring rogue"

Baoshan Sanren 抱山散人: Leisuring Rogue Who Hugs the Mountain

Cangse Sanren 藏色散人: Leisuring Rogue of Hidden Colors

in fanfic, you would treat these like "Hanguang Jun," no addition honorifics needed, and you can't shorten them into nicknames

Question 2: how come no female characters have courtesy names? did women not get them?

women DID, but they were so rarely recorded that authors hardly ever bother to give any to their female characters

in fact, the only female historical figure i can remember a courtesy name for off the top of my head is Empress Lü Zhi of the Han dynasty, whose courtesy name was Exu

Fun fact: She was the first Empress of China, but she wasn't married to the First Emperor, who never took a wife

the sad fact is that the names of women were considered so private that very few of them ended up in history books. the famous Wu Zetian, the only female emperor? Yeah..that's not her name. It was her final title, which meant "to rule by the Mandate of Heaven"

she gave herself a name after she snatched the throne, Zhao 曌, which was a character of her own invention that meant "Like the Sun and Moon in the Sky," (her naming taste...NO CHOICE BUT TO STAN) but her birth name? Lost to history.

her first emperor husband, the famous Emperor Taizong of Tang, did give her an Art Name (basically a nickname) of "Mei Niang," which means "Charming Lady," so that's what c-dramas call her before she becomes empress

ultimately there are so few occasions where you would use an ancient Chinese woman's name that it's legit a step in the ancient marriage traditions for the groom to send a procession to the bride's house and be like "hey so what actually is her name??"

writtenchinese.com/the-6-etiquett…

usually you'd call an ancient Chinese woman by her family name + a title like Auntie or Big Sister. or even by her husband's name.

infamous pirate queen Ching Shih / Cheng I Sao? not her name. it means "Wife of Ching / Zheng," despite him being long dead by the time she ruled

if you're a non-Chinese person writing something inspired by ancient China, it is VITAL that you consult an actual Chinese person to understand the names/titles you're using

i once read a book by a white dude who introduced a character as "Mei Tzu, daughter of Sun Tzu" UGH. NO.

another question: i thought Chinese names are supposed to be 2 characters? then why does Xiao Zhan only have 1 character?

bc it's not a set rule. it depends on the parents' preference. and it's not a rule that family names are a single character either, some have two (Zhuge)

final note: native Chinese celebrities will find it rude and weird if you call them by their family names only, like just "Xiao" or "Wang" for Xiao Zhan or Wang Yibo. either use their names or abbreviations.

also i saw a tweet that was like "you can call Wang Yibo just Yibo bc it's 2 characters, but you can't call Xiao Zhan just Zhan bc it's only one"

that's not..a STRICT rule. it's just that calling someone by only one syllable sounds weird to the Chinese ear. go with Zhanzhan, LOL