Thread by @gwensnyderPHL

So I am really leery of even talking about this because it's so thorny but Proud Boys is starting to trend and I feel like probably I should say something since I watch these guys and organized white supremacists in general

https://twitter.com/gwensnyderPHL/status/1266781504199417860

One thing to know about the Proud Boys is that they are incredible fucking cowards.

They thrive on police-managed street conflict, but I have a very hard time imagining them having the courage to directly show up to one of these protests, simply because they are chickenshit.

Also I'm not seeing anything in the channels I'm in of theirs.

None of this is proof of anything, but unless there's a photo or ID I've missed I'm skeptical that they'd show their faces.

As far as organized white supremacists showing up to pull shit at the protests, we do know boogaloo-preaching guys dreaming of race war have shown up for photo ops at the very least.

alternet.org/2020/05/far-ri…

Legit accounts like @JewishWorker have also been collecting evidence that the fash is showing up claiming they want to "protect" businesses, which was a cover story we heard from militia-oriented fash during Ferguson, too.

On the flip side, George Soros and other topics about supposed paid protesters are trending and trending fast.

The far right is absolutely working to leverage racist outside agitator narratives to try & delegitimize protests right now.

https://twitter.com/gwensnyderPHL/status/1266724989077803008

So, white supremacists are definitely very interested and definitely showing up at some capacity and I certainly wouldn't put provocateurism past them, but at the same time there are definitely liberals looking to use Nazi agent provocateur rumors to delegitimize the protests.

And, it's also worth keeping in mind that the boogaloo supremacists especially get high on their own supply.

A whole lot of them honest to God believe all the ugly lies they've told about Black people being dangerous, animalistic, and unreasoning.

Plus, they're all cowards, too.

They fucking hate the cops but won't get into confrontation with them unless they're fully geared up in body armor and have at least one AK dangling from their shoulder.

They're unlikely to dare to go into a Black protest unless geared up.

On the other hand AGAIN, terror Nazis' whole thing is trying to provoke people into racially violent suicide missions, & on occasion they're able to talk someone into it.

So it's not out of the realm of possibility that they pull that shit w some racist willing to die.

(not that thinking they were risking death covertly going into a protest unarmed would be realistic, but Nazis don't really deal in realism)

So, I don't have a definitive yes/no answer on white supremacist provocateurism here beyond "probably Proud Boys wouldn't."

What's more important here is for folks to think about how the "white supremacists did it" narratives can cut both ways, whatever the truth on the ground.

At least a few white supremacists are definitely on the ground and absolutely hoping this will spark their prayed-for race war.

Not acknowledging that white supremacists are looking at this opportunistically and acting accordingly would be dangerous.

Also, though, the far right is hardcore pushing racist/antisemitic Soros outside agitator narratives right now to try to silence the voice of Black protesters, and liberal politicians may be trying to leverage the white supremacist provocateur narrative for the same purpose.

Nuance is never fun, but it's really needed here.

I know there are some extremely tempting hot takes to be had around all this in both "white supremacist terrorists!" and "liberals made up imaginary white supremacist terrorists!" directions, but there's just... a lot going on.

It's important to name white supremacist deception, but it's also really important not try and explain away/minimize Black community outrage over state-sanctioned murder because certain modes of expressing outrage might make us uncomfortable.

For my part, I'm trying to balance the fact that this news is extremely fast-paced and not necessarily fact-checked with consciously trying to lean towards trusting reportbacks from voices from Black community on the ground.

There's not going to be a perfect here, we can't just sit on our hands waiting for a fact-check on emerging stories when bad actors are taking no such pause, and we can't decenter the voices of the Black people most impacted and taking on the risk.

To me, as we're hearing various stories about white supremacists presence or lack thereof, those are the voices to be paying the most attention to.

People on the ground in their own communities are the most likely to recognize strangers showing up to stir shit.

Antifascism is about community self-defense, and part of that work is honoring the importance and voice of communities involved in that work, including the story they're telling about what's happening on the ground.

When it comes to this kind of stuff (and community protest/action situations generally, really), those community voices are incredibly important ones ones to be looking for and listening to, not only on principle but just practically.

Think critically and be aware that there will be bad actors lying about community membership-- keep that grain of salt on hand-- but don't use that as an excuse to tune out community voices on the ground.

Ultimately, those voices are the most important.

Also, if you're a white person thinking about protesting, make sure that you 1) are wanted/invited, 2) do your best to support/follow Black-led protest, and 3) absolutely DO NOT provoke police at Black-led protest without leadership consent bc you think that's what badasses do.

White folks who provoke cops-- especially at Black-led and/or racially-charged cops-- end up provoking them in ways that almost always lead to disproportionate targeting of and violence against Black people.

White people don't have the right to make that call on this issue.

The outside agitator/white supremacist provocateur discourse circulating right now adds a whole new layer of problematic to this kind of behavior.

White folks provoking cops will likely get filmed, and the footage can be used to dishonestly reinforce delegitimizing narratives.

Don't give anyone an opportunity to use your behavior dishonestly, don't risk reinforcing delegitimizing "outside agitator" discourse by uncritically repeating over-generalizations, watch out for disinfo but be sure to listen for & to voices from Black community on the ground.

Nuance and care don't make for sexy Twitter content, but sometimes there's just no responsible hot take to be had.

It seems to me like as far as news about white supremacist presence goes, this might be one of those times.

Thanks, folks.

*racially charged situations, not racially charged cops, oops