Thread by @sreshthamondal

Across the table Panel discussion series for #STIP2020. 11th in the series- Data, ethics & regulatory frameworks

Panel- Prof. Geeta Gouri, Prof. Prabuddha Ganguli, @ananth1148 and Dr. Suchita Ninawe

Mods- @subhodeepjash & Dr. Nidhi Thakur

#AskSTIP2020Data

Beginbeing with opening remarks by the panelists-
Prof. Gouri- Sci & Innovation policies and Data market - both interconnected. Whether publicly/privately funded public/private data market respectively, it is open to scrutiny by Competition Commission of India.

IPR is imp...

In this era though the Q. of Standard essential patents is imp. for Science & Innovations. E.g. the case of Ericsson & Micromax.

Need to be clearly stated - What is free & open non- discriminatory pricing? What is its Non- disclosure agreement?

With scientists & innovators...

..coming up with various innovations, imp. for Govt. To follow up with active participation in Standard setting organizations international.

On data markets, concern of privacy is there. The most imp. q of effects is on network effects.

The black box of AI & machine learning..

Any data market, networking that takes place has to look into 3 issues- Algorithms of 1. personalized pricing 2. prioritization 3. collusion

All such issues have to be considered to protect STI interests.Think on provision of neutrality of platform.

Anti trust issues, pro-..

.. collaborations.

Dr. Ninawe - With DNA storing huge data, genetics & genomics has grown speedily. Need strong Data infrastructure, acknowledge the diff. issues on privacy & security. 4 V's of data generation-
1. data volume-identify the amt. of data generated at one place..

..which is accessible to other researchers too.
2. Velocity- The tremendous pace at which data is generated.
3. Variety- diff. data is generated from diff. resources.
4. Veracity- authenticity of data generated.

To cope with all this, need strong policies, infra. & developing..

..our indigenous cloud systems & storage, computing facilities. Curation & annotation of data needs to be strengthened. HR needs to be trained & updated in these fields.
Emerging Tech like AI & Big data have reciprocal relationships.

Role of data governance is imp. & India...

..is making its efforts, policy frameworks are there since 2012.

Open access data is equally imp. but need to deal with other associated issues with it. Need to have a diff. framework for dealing with sensitive data.DBT is about to have a Pilot data centre

Humans- unidentify..

..other organisms- identify data.

Plan for a National Data centre working in a hub & spoke model.

Prof. Ganguli- There is lot of S&T in labs but challenge is to translate it for commercialization- Policy should address this issue.

In research, Data is generated + used...

..reliability is imp. Next is utility & reuse of that data. Sufficient Open access is reqd

Regulatory frameworks for data should be facilitators rather than barriers to innovation

The issues are the contradictory provisions in various laws - systemic holistic revision reqd

Streamlining policies across diff. Dept., ministries to bring in consonance is need of the hour.

Open access mgmt. is needed through policy framework.

@ananth1148 -Rich source of data is available in India but lags in methodical processes & systems development for governance..

..& ecosystem. Clarity of data standards, robustness of data storage, data operations is smooth amongst different points, & data is clean & accurate.

2 diff. aspects when it comes to Data regulation- 1.approvals 2. data

India is a little confused about data protection issues..

..On 1 end the pressure of forming data protection laws on the lines of GDPR. But considering the shift to digital economy, GDPR brings friction which India cannot have as it is a Green field regime.

India needs to think about its policy choices carefully. The authority needs...

.. to set standards. Most of the focus goes to enforcement, but technical standard setting needs to be focused now to quicken up our pace.

In area of electronics, need to balance consumer interest with innovation. To catch the culprits, the good ones are getting restricted..

Data protection impact assessment causes problems for innovators

The problems in terms of data regulations that need to be discussed-

1. Problems for innovators
2. Cause intra-regulatory confusions

@subhodeepjash on online market places & Competition Commission of India..

Prof. Gouri- In the case of Google, as Indian consumers diff. from European consumers, it was about algorithm of prioritization.

E- commerce is about platforms coming up.There are platforms now with network effects going e.g. Swiggy.

The Q. is what do we want to look at...

What sustains consumers interests?
The worry is, that are we well equipped to say that European Commission says this & what India follows? The fear of creating false +ves -as comp. , anti trust authority it's better to leave it alone.

How much do you allow the market to operate?

And where should the regulatory authority come in?

The competition authority currently is bothered about size.

For setting up policy frameworks, Govt. & WTO have to play an imp. role.

Do we go towards strict laws or consider that market has it's own logic?

Nidhi takes up an audience q. On data principles for data sharing

@ananth1148 - when it comes to data sharing, we dont have inadequacies to compliance as far as scientific establishments & protocols go.

Prof. Gouri - We haven't got protocols in place properly which is imp. ..

.. We are dealing with data markets & platforms. Platform markets have a diff. logic & way of working. All we are saying is that when data is collected, how to ensure certain amt. of anonymization, protection to consumer.

Each country has to work out it's own protocols...

..part of which is development. The Comp. Comm. of India (CCI) will also take it up with a new act. Diff. Interpretation of platform market from a product market & then think of various issues.

On data localization, everything's on cloud now.

We aren't getting to the crux of..

..the problem that reqd. to be answered.

Nidhi asks about how to facilitate knowledge transfer between innovators & implementors w.r.t standards & patents

Prof. Ganguli- 1 we need to look across all regulatory agencies we have dealing with same sector & need to cut across silos

That can solved by putting across a transparent single digital platform.

Need to have uniformity across diff laws by diff depts & ministries

Interoperability needs uniform standards & IPRs, accessibility are extremely imp.

Need to have a comprehensive national innovation bill

@subhodeepjash combines an audience Q with few other Qs on looking at issues in purchase of research equipment & why don't they serve as an exception to Govt. Financial regulations to promote innovation.

Dr. Ninawe - There diff institutes at diff levels & if uniform policy..

..isn't there, then it would be very difficult for Govt. agencies to clear the funds. There should be some procedures to follow (w.r.t. GFR) Govt. is trying to improve more of facilitation of easing such processes

@subhodeepjash brings the point about non- personal data in panel

@ananth1148 - Non personal data is that data which doesn't have anything to do with the individual (generally aggregated data) but still very valuable for e.g. Weather data, migration data.

The reasons why non personal data is being talked about in personal data bill -

* anything personal to do with the individual (for the tweet above)

(Personal thoughts) It comes from a certain understanding/ conflation of understanding that if we want to really seek value out of Indian data, then there needs to be provision on Non personal data. Also the...

..belief that Non personal data belongs to the Govt. in a certain trusteeship model.

When data protection authority comes into the picture for personal data, its not going to really think about Non personal data & few of its unique challenges.Some Qs go beyond anonymization for

..the data regulation authority.

Prof. Gouri- Generally the concern is about the data generated by E- commerce platforms, hasn't gone to the data, for e.g. Public health services, national sample surveys would be having

On talking about the anti-trust issues that can crop up-

..& if the Govt. can combine data from diff. sources & identify, that can make one uncomfortable. So it has got to do so much about privacy instead of anti-trust. Hence Govt. should also maintain same amount of protocols privacy, confidence for public data.

Data has diff. ways in which people can combine & use it - somehow in India we haven't sorted this out well.

Indians are slowly realizing the concept of encroachment of privacy.

Prof. Ganguli -We can learn a few lessons from EU on the transparent use of Non, Semi personal data

..& adapt it to our needs & conditions as the EU framework cuts across levels.

Nidhi takes up an audience Q. on getting a specific measurable actionable challenging (SMAC) to the issue of data, ethics & governance.

Prof. Ganguli - (V. broad Q.) 1st part, need to bring an...

..ethical standard. Ethics cannot used in general way, needs to be specifically contextual.

Governance- accountability & regulation aspects should be at one point bringing together diff players.

Nidhi to Prof. Ganguli on Data sharing policies by DBT, DST on access terms...

Prof. Ganguli- We now need to set the stds. - on receiving funding from govt, should know the way to create, store & share the data.

For the researchers, Govt. should look into a dialogue between policies by govt agencies + policies of journal publishing firms for a consonance.

Issues of copyrights also need to be looked into, in a similar manner too.

@subhodeepjash takes up audience Q. on promoting simple language for science + exclusive right to reproduce publications of Govt. funded projects without copyright barriers to them.

Prof. Gouri - Lot of policies need alignment, but for promoting innovation, one must incentivize.

One thing is, IPR gives the right to the person who has put years of effort.

Prof. Ganguli -In case of patents, it's not for anybody & everybody but rather for the skilled person..

Copyrights of publications should be there, but we rather need to look into sharing them.There is a diff between freely accessible & free of cost- that's where a comprehensive policy needs to look to address uncertainties in various factors,scenarios.

Prof. Gouri - Copyright has to have a certain form of sanctity in any area. One has to give the original mind incentives to invent / innovate it & to monetize it.

Prof. Ganguli- Institutes should have uniform IPR policies to respect others IPs & generate self IPs respectively...

Prof Gouri- If one is taking a license for a patent, then what is the patent providing? In a std. essential patent which is a packet, atleast there should be public info. about what patent(s) going to become.

Its imp. to define, how much should be known & unknown.

@subhodeepjash to @ananth1148 on how feasible it is to have a international data transfer toolbox regime (taking India & EU in this Q.) meeting the adequacy benchmarks.

Personal view: May run into some trouble with functions in the bill about Govt. access to data -one can say..

...not enough safeguards. Europeans are v. finicky about personal data privacy.

Our IT sectors have been dealing with diff. sectors like Banking, telecom, etc.

All things said, overall on the adequacy question w.r.t. to the current bill becoming law- need to be cautious.

Closing remarks from the panelists-

Prof. Gouri- We haven't been able to evolve our own protocol, governance ecosystem & regulatory processes. Convergence between 3 agencies needs to be there to avoid regulatory conflicts.

Looking at countries, its imp. to realize that...

..there are only insights but cannot be applied in total within our country. It has to be discussed much more in depth.

Prof. Ganguli - In present context esp. , we should bring in affordable innovations as solutions. For this, need to think about innovation life cycle. Laws &..

..systems need to match with that life cycle & speed to facilitate all of this needs to speed up.

@ananth1148 -On regulation point, need to think about 2 v diff. sometimes disparate objectives-ensuring enough innovation is happening & lot of trust building is reqd for data.

End

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