#StateCaptureInquiry Adv Paul Pretorius is the Evidence Leader who will lead the mystery witness through his evidence. I can say "his evidence" because I heard them testing the audio with him. Now we wait to see where he fits in exactly.
#StateCaptureInquiry [Technical issues for now. Proceedings postponed until issues resolved].
#StateCaptureInquiry We're back. There are 3 witnesses who will testify in camera. Zondo rules that they will not be present in the hearing room, protected witness location will be provided, & testimony will given via audio link. They're referred to simply as "witness 1, 2 & 3".
#StateCaptureInquiry Zondo says that all three witnesses were sworn in in his presence earlier today. To protect their identities they will simply be referred to as Witness 1, Witness 2, and Witness 3. Witness names & initials will be redacted from all documentation and evidence.
#StateCaptureInquiry Zondo says the witnesses voices will be electronically altered so that they cannot be recognised. [This is the real deal].
#StateCaptureInquiry Adv Pretorius starts with "witness number 1" who confirms he has taken the oath.
#StateCaptureInquiry Witness 1 is employed in the Transnet group in a senior security position and has been in that position since 1989.
#StateCaptureInquiry Witness 1 is asked to describe what a "Close Protection Officer" is. His answer is muffled and the signal is bad. He's asked to speak slowly and clearly.
#StateCaptureInquiry [Witness 1 speaks again but the quality of the audio isn't great]. Technicians working on it. They plan to reduce the distortion on his voice.
#StateCaptureInquiry Witness 1 starts again but the audio is staccato and bad. We adjourn for 5 mins.
#StateCaptureInquiry Been about 50 mins since we adjourned for 5 mins. Seems the audio issues are a little more complicated than initially thought.
#StateCaptureInquiry We are back. Witness 1 explains what "close protection officer" is. [Basically a body guard] Your duties involve driving them around, making sure meetings are conducted safely. W1 says there are 19 protectors at present in Transnet.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says GCEO and GCFO are entitled to close protection unconditionally. But with other executives, they may be entitled to protection but there must be a threat assessment done. W1 says he acted as Close Protection Officer for GCEO Brian Molefe from 2011-2014
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says he could receive Mr Molefe's diary for the whole week coming up from Molefe's PA. This would allow him to plan for the week ahead. W1 says his duties came to an end at the end of July 2014.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says the vehicles he was used to transport Molefe around in:
1)BMW X5 Silver
2)BMW 320 D
3) Mercedes Benz E350
4) Audi A8
All vehicles had log books and log sheets.
1)BMW X5 Silver
2)BMW 320 D
3) Mercedes Benz E350
4) Audi A8
All vehicles had log books and log sheets.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says he still has all the log books that he completed. He is asked about a particular address in Jhb. W1 says he transported Molefe on various occasions to the Gupta residence, Michael Angelo Hotel, Fire & Ice in Melrose & the offices of Sahara Computers.
#StateCaptureInquiry Molefe would meet with Ajay Gupta W1 says Molefe met Ajay all over the place. These meetings were never officially recorded in Molefe's official diary. W1 says he has no idea why. On 18 July 2011, W1 says they visited Saxonwold where the Guptas lived.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says on 19 July 2011, Molefe once again visited the Gupta residence in Saxonwold. W1 says on 29 July 2011 they visited the Michelangelo in Sandton. On 3 Aug 2011, Molefe visits Saxonwold. On 24 Aug 2011, Molefe vists Saxonwold again.
#StateCaptureInquiry On 14 Sept 2011, Molefe visits Saxonwold again. On 19 Oct 2011, Molefe visits Saxonwold again but this time it's address number 26 [a different address to their normal residence]. On 9 Nov 2011, Molefe visits Michelangelo Hotel.
#StateCaptureInquiry On 9 Nov 2011, Molefe visits Michelangelo Hotel. On 24 Nov 2011, Molefe visits Melrose Arch Hotel. On 21 Feb 2012, Molefe visits Gupta's in Saxonwold. 12 March 2012, Molefe visits Sahara Offices in Midrand.
#StateCaptureInquiry On 28 May 2012, Molefe visits Saxonwold to see the Guptas. On 5 Sept 2012, Molefe visits Saxonwold again. On 12 Sept 2012, Molefe visits Saxonwold for another visit to the Guptas.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says his colleague took over from him after that and he didn't transport Molefe around any more. [Witness 1 (W1), the CPO or bodyguard assigned to protect Molefe drove him to various addresses to meet with the Guptas on many many occasions].
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says Molefe never told him about why he was visiting the Guptas, only that they were going to see Ajay Gupta. The visits would last between 20 to 45 mins at Saxonwold. At Sahara Computers he again met with Ajay Gupta.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says when Molefe visited the Guptas, he would often carry a light brown backpack.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says there were times when Molefe didn't have the backpack with him, but when he didn't have one, he would return from a meeting with the Guptas with a "brown sports bag...the bag was filled up with something."
#StateCaptureInquiry On 18 Jan 2012, Molefe instructs W1 to deliver a bag to Ajay Gupta at Sahara. W1 confirms he did this.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says in 2012 he met Ajay Gupta at the ANC Conference in Mangaung. Ajay was with Brian Molefe.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says he has seen Malusi Gigaba and a Siyabonga Mahlangu at the Saxonwold residence of the Guptas when he transported Molefe there.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 describes an incident where he was instructed to go fetch Molefe's cell phone from his bag. When he opened the light brown leather backpack to get the phone, "I was surprised to see bundles of R200 notes. I then called his PA and showed her the cash..."
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 estimates that if those R200 note bundles were flattened and placed on a table, it would be about 30cm high.
#StateCaptureInquiry Molefe was approached by W1 who told him it is threat to their safety to carry so much cash around. "He was very upset with my comment. He said it's none of my business what's inside the bag," says W1.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 would often deposit cash for Molefe. The amounts he deposited varied from R5000 to R20 000. W1 says he would get the money from Molefe's PA or directly from Molefe.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says he's been threatened before. The first threat was on 9 June 2019 at 21:20, "I received a message on my official phone."
#StateCaptureInquiry Another previous threat in 2018 came after he was interviewed by investigators. He also received a call from a male with an African accent from a Transnet number. "He stated, we know where you live, and then he dropped the phone," says W1.
#StateCaptureInquiry On 8 April & again on 4 June 2019 he was interviewed by State Cap investigators...then on 9 June 2019, at 21:20, "I got a short message...it said, witness 1, if you know what's good for you, I command you not to give any further evidence to the Zondo Comm...
#StateCaptureInquiry "...we are watching your every move. We even know where you live. Be warned. I reported the threat to the police," says Witness 1.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says on 13 Jan 2020 he got another threat via SMS at 10:52. "It reads, we are fully aware that you are about to give evidence at Zondo Comm, & you have intimidated other bodyguards to give evidence as well. We are sorry to inform you that you are being...
#StateCaptureInquiry "...used. If you love your life, I advise you to resign and disappear. Stop it with your moronic superman behaviour. We are watching your every move, your conversations. Act sensibly and give this matter your most urgent attention. When we are done with...
#StateCaptureInquiry "...you, your family won't find a piece of you," says Witness 1. He again reported this to the SAPS.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says he was once followed on 3 occasions by a White VW Polo (twice) and a Grey VW Polo (once) with no registration plates. W1 says "I thought I was under surveillance. I was being followed."
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says he made notes on the log book of the official vehicle he was driving that he was being followed.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says he managed to get a pic of the Polo that was following him.
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 says he took the photos by swerving and forcing the car to pass him so that he could get a pic. "The two occupants turned and looked at me..."
#StateCaptureInquiry W1 confirms that since all the threats and being followed, he has taken certain security measures. Witness 1 concludes his evidence. Zondo thanks the witness for testifying despite the threats he received.
#StateCaptureInquiry 5 min adjournment before Witness 2 begins.
#StateCaptureInquiry Witness 2 takes the virtual stand.
#StateCaptureInquiry Witness 2 is employed as a security officer in the Transnet Group. He was a driver for Siyabonga Gama. Gama would become Group CEO.
#StateCaptureInquiry Witness 2 says Gama used to be CEO of Transnet Freight Rail division before becoming Transnet GCEO.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says he would transport Gama on private trips. W2 says he had to maintain the vehicles Gama used. They had to be sent for regular services, kept clean and, he was responsible for general maintenance.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says Gama used:
1) BMW X5 SUV
2)Mercedes S500
3) Mercedes S65
4) Range Rover Evoque
5) Mercedes SL63
1) BMW X5 SUV
2)Mercedes S500
3) Mercedes S65
4) Range Rover Evoque
5) Mercedes SL63
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says the Range Rover was fully armoured.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 lists other vehicles:
1) Land Rover Discovery was used in the early days
2) Lexus 4x4
3) Lexus sedan
4) BMW 320
5) Mini Cooper
1) Land Rover Discovery was used in the early days
2) Lexus 4x4
3) Lexus sedan
4) BMW 320
5) Mini Cooper
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says he did not keep a daily log book of these vehicles as "these were private vehicles".
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says he transported Gama to Saxonwold (Gupta residence) "on three or four trips". These trips were never recorded in a diary.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says when they arrived at Saxonwold, he would drop Gama off and get a parking space and wait for Gama to return. While waiting he saw Brian Molefe, "Thami Jiyani" (not sure of spelling, apologies).
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says Joyani once made a remark to him "that I'm [Witness 2] exposed to the shady stuff that they do. [He said it in Zulu though]."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says Molefe would arrive alone driving himself in a Audi S8. At the time Gama was assuming the position of Transnet GCEO. Molefe was already at Eskom as CEO by then.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says in Nov 2016, there was a visit to the Gupta residence again. "...Mr Gama came to the vehicle and alerted me that somebody will approach me and I must open the back side of the vehicle."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says, "...a relative of the Gupta family walked right up to me, and handed me a suitcase that I placed in the boot of the vehicle."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says it was a Polo bag. Gama finally left the residence and they drove to corner Grayston and Rivonia to the Maslow Hotel. Gama was dropped at the entrance. Thami Jiyani also arrived. "They were sitting in the bar lounge," says W2.
#StateCaptureInquiry Jiyane approached W2 and told him to place the suitcase in his car and handed him the keys. [So the bag Gama received at the Gupta residence was then moved to Jiyane's car].
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says he took the suitcase from the boot of Gama's car and took it to Jiyane's vehicle (a white Merc GL class). W2 says he opened the bag up and "inside was stacked bundles of cash. The top layer contained R50 and R100 notes.".
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says the bag Gama got from one of the Gupta's relatives was "fully filled [with cash]". He then zipped it up and placed it where he was instructed to in Jiyane's car.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says he would transport Mr Gama and often drop him at the African Pride Hotel with instructions to go and meet a gentleman that he got acquainted to, "that handed me...a plastic bag. I conducted my own finding to confirm it was Mr [Salim] Essa."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says on 13 June 2017 Mr Gama asked him to collect a parcel from Salim Essa in Melrose Arch. He drove to the apartment side parking and waited to receive the package. Essa walked towards him and met him at the boot where he stored the package.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says he then went to pick up Mr Gama at the African Pride Hotel. He then took Gama to Bryanston. Their movements were captured on a cell phone device [a GPS I assume].
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says in Bryanston Gama met "a close friend of his...after arriving at the residence...at some point Mr Gama approached me & asked me to open the boot of the vehicle & pull out the bag we had collected earlier. He opened it up & started counting the cash...
#StateCaptureInquiry "...as he opened it I identified cash notes. There were R200 notes. It was a quarter full. I observed him splitting the cash into two. Half half. Calculating it into stacks and later handed me R50k. I presume it could have been R1m [in the bag]," says W2.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says, "I assited him in the calculation [of the stacks of money]. He handed me R50k." Zondo asks why he would get the money. W2 says, "I assume it was a thank you."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says on 13 July 2017 he again went to fetch a parcel from Salim Essa at Melrose. "It was a wrapped plastic bag. It had stacked and folded notes," says W2. Mr Gama was once again picked up after the package was received from Essa.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 narrates more occasions that bags [presumably full of cash] were put in the boot of the car. They went to a residence in Sandhurst, "Mr Gama went inside. I remained with the vehicle. I inspected and confirmed what was in the plastic bag..."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says, "there was a stack of R200 notes. I am not sure how much it was but it wasn't less than R100 000."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says he was eventually accused of stealing money from Gama. On one occasion when W2 doing maintenance on the car he discovered R200 notes in the spare wheel compartment. "It was nothing more than R100k."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says on 20 April 2017 there was a meeting in Centurion that was initiated by "a former Min" meeting with SOE CEOs, "in the back of R Gama's Range Rover, in a red medical kit bag, there were R200 notes as well. Again, about R100k."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says on another occasion, they were driving back to Gama's residence after work and stopped at the entrance of a college in Kyalami and met with Mr Thami Jiyane, who handed them a box that can occupy 2 to 4 bottles of wine sealed with sellotape...
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says from what he saw it was a box "made for wine" but upon feeling it, "it didn't contain wine. I didn't see [what was in it], but the packaging could have been of paper or notes and based on the convo I overheard, 'it had to be given to someone'."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says he picked up from the code words used by Gama and whomever he was speaking to on the phone, that the transaction [box of money] had to be conducted and the contents had to be given to someone that weekend.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says on once went to Woodmead where he met with former colleague of his. "The colleague had a close friend of Mr Gama that had to be transferred to the Merc I was driving. The instruction was to meet Mr Gama on the N17 highway...
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says, "we met up just past the first toll gate after the N3. Mr Jiyane was present. I handed over the vehicle to Mr Gama who was dropped off. Mr Jiyane walked from his vehicle with a package and gave it to Mr Gama."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says "as per norm, it came to my attention, that Mr Gama was on a weekend away and...like on previous occasions, I concluded it was a packet of cash notes."
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says "through experience and norm, that's where I could draw my conclusion from [even if he didn't see what was in a package. He says he knew it was cash].
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says his relationship with Mr Gama became strained because he couldn't execute instructions from a 3rd party who was an associate of Mr Gama, which he wasn't happy about. "subsequently I'd be accused of witch craft. Supposedly there was a video where...
#StateCaptureInquiry "...it surfaced that I sprinkled something at the residence of Mr Gama," says W2. He denies he ever did that. With allegations and victimisation piling up, W2 says he tried to resign but they built a case against him and was eventually dismissed.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says he approached Transnet about these trumped up allegations and an investigation led to his reinstatement.
#StateCaptureInquiry W2 says since his departure in 2017, and after his reinstatement, there has been a few occasions "I noticed drones by my residence. I have had texts sent to me threatening me since I was back at Transnet. Being persuaded not to give evidence...
#StateCaptureInquiry "...whether it be in this commission or after I was reinstated at Transnet," says W2.
#StateCaptureInquiry Witness 2 concludes his evidence. Zondo thanks the witness for coming to give evidence under these circumstances.
#StateCaptureInquiry Witness 3 is up next.
#StateCaptureInquiry We take a 5 min break for the next witness to get ready. [Wow 🔥🔥🔥...jaw on floor]
#StateCaptureInquiry Witness 3 begins.
#StateCaptureInquiry Witness 3 is also employed in a senior security position at the Transnet Group. W3 spent some time in the SAPS as well.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 was in 2004 a member of the VIP Protection Unit of the SAPS. He was trained as a Close Protection Officer (CPO)...[a bodyguard]. In 2005 he was assigned to guard then Home Affairs Deputy Minister Malusi Gigaba.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says he did transport Gigaba to Sahara Computer in Midrand. That business was owned by the Guptas.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 was eventually seconded to the Department of Public Enterprises where Malusi Gigaba was then the Minister.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says Gigaba was transported to the Gupta residence about "6 to 7 times" [unclear of the year]. W3 says on the day, "I drove him alone [to the Guptas], he [Gigaba] told me not to record the journey. They were not recorded at all. No reason was given."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says Gigaba told them not to record any trips made to the Gupta residence in the official log books.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says when they visited the Gupta residence, "I would wait in the car and he would jump out quickly. On one occasion I saw Brian Molefe, @koko_matshela, Ben Ngubane...Linda Mabaso. The convoy of the President [Zuma] was leaving the Gupta residence."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says at some point Gigaba would carry "large sums of cash...when he opened the boot to take out money to buy us lunch, inside the boot there was a bag and there were stacks of R200 notes inside."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says after some time, "I started connecting the dots to see the money was coming from Saxonwold. He [Gigaba] would go to the Guptas and after that go to Sandton to pay cash for his tailored suits."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says he cannot conclude exactly how a bag full of cash got into the boot of the official vehicle of Malusi Gigaba. W3 says he does know that the Minister would buy suits in cash, and pay for drinks and meals in cash. [Always cash].
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says on 3 occasion he saw Gigaba pay with cash. Other times he didn't see how he paid.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says in Jan 2014 he was employed at Transnet at the Carlton Center. He would later become the bodyguard to Transnet CFO Anoj Singh. W3 was his close protector.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says he kept log books of travel for these vehicles. W3 says he tried to get these log books but was told "they cannot be located".
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says he transport Anoj Singh to the Gupta residence about 10 times. Singh would jump out after he parked. He would take about 20-30 mins.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says Singh would leave the Gupta home and get into the car with a "sports bag" [I'm starting to sense a pattern here].
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says Singh would open the bag and give him money to buy lunch. That is when he would see the R100 and R200 notes stash in the bag. W3 says this happened more than once.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says he observed money in a bag given to Anoj Singh on 1 occasion. But that they had driven to the Gupta home on 10 occasions. Of those, Singh comes out with a bag on about 10 occasions.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says he and Anoj Singh would leave the Gupta residence and drive to "Knox Vault where the boot would be opened. He'd leave with the bag full and come back with an empty bag."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 is speaking about money being taken to "Knox Vault"...👇🏽 
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says Anoj Singh visited Knox Vault about six or seven times. In 2015, W3 was driving Singh to a meeting when it was interrupted. "He got a call on his cell phone and I was told to divert and drive to the Gupta residence...I could hear there was some panic
#StateCaptureInquiry "...in his voice. When we arrived he rush inside the premises. I waited in the car and waited 1.5 hours for him to come out. He appeared to be very nervous and stressed. When he got in the vehicle he said 'fuck this thing'."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says this was unusual behaviour for him adding that he never found out what happened that caused this panic in Singh.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 was @ the Three River's Lodge when he noticed "four men of Asian descent. They looked like Chinese to me...two of them appeared busy on their phones. They took two luggage bags [from the cars] & went inside the lodge where the executive meeting was held...
#StateCaptureInquiry W3: "...at 3pm I got a message from Mr Singh asking me to come to the conference room where the meeting was held. [The two Asian men who had brought the bags inside were inside with Molefe and Singh]. Then Mr Singh pointed to a maroon bag to put in the car."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says the bag was very heavy. "I took the [maroon] bag to our vehicle. I also saw Brian Molefe's driver putting a black bag into his car."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says the incident took place on the Friday at the Three River's Lodge in Vereeiging in July 2014. On the follow Monday, he took the car to the car wash and saw the maroon bag, opened it, it was a quarter empty, but had a lot of money inside.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says when he told Singh about the money in the boot he came down and took the suitcase away. "The bag was lighter [on Monday than it was on the previous Friday]. I saw R200 notes in rubber bands."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says he went to Sahara Computers on a number of occasions.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says that from 2016-2018 he served Gary Pita, Transnet CFO. He would transport him to the Gupta residence on two occasions.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says the first time he took Pita to the Guptas it was a Friday. Pita was acting CFO, but after visiting the Guptas he would be appointed Group CFO.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says he took Pita to the Guptas a second time in 2017, when he emerged "he was swearing a lot and red-faced. He was mentioning something about a R600m payment [same amount offered to Jonas?] and timelines, but I didn't know what he was talking about."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 says he would also transport Gary Pita to Knox Vault as he did with Anoj Singh. He took Pita six times. "He would come out with a bag and get in the car...he would jump out with the bag...and come out with an empty bag."
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 is asked if he knows Salim Essa. He confirms he knows him and saw him in a Portuguese restaurant "Parreirinha" where he took Gary Pita to meet Essa on 15 occasions.
#StateCaptureInquiry W3 is asked how he feels about his personal safety now. He says, "I feel scared from here going forward Chairperson".
#StateCaptureInquiry Zondo thanks the witness and says "the Commission will do all that it can" to ensure their safety. We adjourn for the day.
