Ross Tucker Profile picture
Aug 31, 2020 15 tweets 4 min read Read on X
Last week, I posted a thread addressing a common criticism of transgender athlete policies, namely that they’re based on evidence in non-athletes. Here’s that thread, for a reminder. Today, I want to mull on another common issue raised in objection: (1/)
The objection is this: People argue that because trans women are often smaller, lighter, slower, weaker etc than biological females, it should be fine for them to compete as women. It’s an “overlap argument". Here’s one example of that thinking (this particular poll backfired): Image
The premise of the argument is this:
- Testosterone confers upon males advantages including size, strength, speed, power. This is why women have a separate category;
- If someone identifies as female (trans women), provided they’re not too big, strong, fast, they can compete as W
This leads the argument that trans women inclusion should be dealt with on a case by case basis. If you measure & limit enough variables, problem solved! Right?
Well, no, and I just want to think out loud about some issues. Here’s an example of the actions it calls for (4/) Image
So, first, let’s begin by recognising that there IS overlap between M & F in pretty much every variable we can think of associated with sport. Many women are faster, stronger, heavier, taller than many men. This is obvious. How many of you men are faster than Radcliffe? Yep (/5)
We can (and have) quantified this for mass in rugby, for example. See figure below - the typical male is slightly heavier than the 99th percentile for females (the heaviest 1% of women almost as heavy as typical males). So there is clearly overlap in each attribute, independently Image
The argument now is that some trans athletes, those who overlap and are lighter than males, should be included because if mass is the problem, they create no problem. Except…couple of things. First, mass is not the only thing that matters. It’s one of many attributes that drive
…performance and safety risk. Even at the same mass, evidence is compelling that men are stronger than women. In fact, to match strength, you often need a male who is 20% to 30% lighter than a female. So simply focusing on mass misses many of the factors for safety & performance
But more to the point, where do you set a threshold? Should it be 75kg? 90kg? 60kg? No matter where you set it, the group of humans who fall just under it, AND who have strength & speed advantages would all be male. So this idea of ‘limits’ is a shortcut to ‘no women in sport'
Second, it’s a misunderstanding of why categories exist. Do you allow a 27 year old adult to play against 17 year old children if they’re “a bit smaller than average and not that strong”? Would you allow a weak heavyweight to fight middleweights just because they lack strength?
In other words, why make an exception that allows someone to cross into a protected category just because that person lacks the attributes that category is associated with? The sexes are divided by sex, not weight/strength etc, even though they may be correlated with it.
Next, a philosophical question - if sport is to set up some kind of ‘bright line test’ to decide which applicants for women’s sport should be allowed in and which should not, how does one draw that line? Is sport going to decide who is “womanly enough” for sporting purposes?
On what basis might sport decide that person A cannot play women’s sport, but person B can? Some complex algorithm that factors in all the relevant attributes? Think of how that would be tested. It’s more discriminatory than ever, and lacks rigor and integrity. I can’t see how
…sport can be tasked with running that test. It would also have to be ‘cheat proof’ (look at paralympic classification for why), done regularly, and it would need to be absolutely accurate, or it would not address the risk issues anyway. I don’t know what these tests look like?
In short, the “overlap” argument seems to me to argue for a new way to categorise people for sport, and it’s one that would end women’s participation in sport, because wherever you draw a bright line, biological males will have performance advantages in other attributes around it

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More from @Scienceofsport

Nov 23, 2023
@NakulMPande The "unbeatable advantage" bit you have taken from these tweets is you manipulating an argument. Because of normal overlap between the populations, some women outperform many men, everyone knows this. But it's irrelevant, as you surely know, no? Or do you need this explained too?
@NakulMPande I'm guessing you might, so let's put it this way - many women, who are exceptional athletes, outperform most* men. But no women outperform all men. The reverse, however, IS true. Some men outperform all women. Their advantage is insurmountable.

* depending on task/sport type
@NakulMPande So the moment you match the populations (eg: International cricketers, Olympic qualified runners, Top 100 ranked weightlifters), the sex-overlap disappears, and the 'worst' male from that group is better than the best female from her respective group. What does this mean?
Read 11 tweets
Oct 1, 2023
The South African commentators and studio pundits still don’t understand the four elements of the head contact process. Quite disappointing how superficially they explain it. I know it’s imperfect, but it involves more than our SA viewers are told
@fmessack …assessment (eg low danger if tackler is passive, with “passive of feet planted, not going forward, passive tackler rather than dynamic. Mitigation if suddenly change in direction etc). So it’s systematic, with outcomes determined by the (guided) answer to each question.
@fmessack For example what we saw there for Tonga 9 was assessed as head contact yes, foul play, low danger (tackler passive, not dynamic tackle), so YC. But then with mitigation, so he’s given a pen. One can disagree re degree of danger, then it’s red to YC.
Read 4 tweets
Jul 14, 2023
With the UCI decision today, even if imperfect, it means rugby, swimming, track and field and cycling have all recognized the biological implications of sex, and respected women’s rights to fair and safe sport. The IOC, meanwhile, still believe in “no presumption of advantage”,
…whereas others have recognized that women’s sport has meaning precisely BECAUSE male biology is known to have performance implications. It’s not presumption so much as reality. That’s the start point for scientific evidence. Thereafter, it follows that unless the male biology
…can be removed, entirely, the integrity of women’s sport is undermined when males are permitted to enter it. The “lack of science” is what necessitates a closed category for women, not the accessible one that IOC continues to promote. Today the UCI reached that understanding
Read 8 tweets
May 27, 2023
@CAMOKAT6 @SVPhillimore Yes, largely, it's the same argument that we've heard for the last few years, once it became clear that there are advantages. It involves a lot of evasive wordplay - overwhelming adv vs meaningful, conflating advantage types, using under-representation to dismiss advantage.
@CAMOKAT6 @SVPhillimore Just to take one - left-handers in fencing. The scale of this advantage is so small compared to male vs female, and you only have to ask one question to reveal this: How many left handed females are competitive against right-handed males? Zero. The gap created by LH vs RH is tiny
@CAMOKAT6 @SVPhillimore ...compared to that created by being male. And yes, we do allow advantages in sport - that's the whole point. But we create categories precisely so that these advantages can be found out by the result. A middleweight champion has advantages, but heavyweights would beat them. Why?
Read 15 tweets
May 26, 2023
Good to see from British Cycling. Yes, it follows the evidence, and yes, it respects women’s rights to fairness, and their voice. But it still takes a degree of conviction to go against the international governing body (however misguided that policy may be).
The path that leads to this “departure” is interesting. Scientific evidence for retained advantage (and refuting its removal) was there all along, for all parties to recognize. What @BritishCycling had was vocal women who refused to be ignored. Plus a case that demonstrated the
…performance implications of the retention of male advantage. The key, however, was that women forced a conversation that couldn’t be ignored. What the IOC prioritized, as a matter of principle (literally, it’s on their principles), is the diminishing of that voice.
Read 5 tweets
Apr 19, 2023
This has been deleted, but I'd like to thank @peterjrainford for opening this door to some important points in this debate. First of all, this athlete was *RIGHTLY* disqualified because of the advantage gained by a car. Nobody who argues for fairness in sport would disagree...1/ Image
Second, this athlete finished third, they didn't win. But we know that they still gained an advantage and were correctly disqualified. This should be noted by those who frequently suggest that the (perceived) scarcity of TW who win is evidence that the lack advantages.
Third, we don't care whether the athlete in question used a car for 1% of the race of 50% of the race. That they used it at all is reason for disqualification. Their advantage came from "outside the category", and its scale is irrelevant to fairness. It's unfair at any length (3/
Read 7 tweets

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