Ross Tucker Profile picture
Aug 31, 2020 15 tweets 4 min read Read on X
Last week, I posted a thread addressing a common criticism of transgender athlete policies, namely that they’re based on evidence in non-athletes. Here’s that thread, for a reminder. Today, I want to mull on another common issue raised in objection: (1/)
The objection is this: People argue that because trans women are often smaller, lighter, slower, weaker etc than biological females, it should be fine for them to compete as women. It’s an “overlap argument". Here’s one example of that thinking (this particular poll backfired): Image
The premise of the argument is this:
- Testosterone confers upon males advantages including size, strength, speed, power. This is why women have a separate category;
- If someone identifies as female (trans women), provided they’re not too big, strong, fast, they can compete as W
This leads the argument that trans women inclusion should be dealt with on a case by case basis. If you measure & limit enough variables, problem solved! Right?
Well, no, and I just want to think out loud about some issues. Here’s an example of the actions it calls for (4/) Image
So, first, let’s begin by recognising that there IS overlap between M & F in pretty much every variable we can think of associated with sport. Many women are faster, stronger, heavier, taller than many men. This is obvious. How many of you men are faster than Radcliffe? Yep (/5)
We can (and have) quantified this for mass in rugby, for example. See figure below - the typical male is slightly heavier than the 99th percentile for females (the heaviest 1% of women almost as heavy as typical males). So there is clearly overlap in each attribute, independently Image
The argument now is that some trans athletes, those who overlap and are lighter than males, should be included because if mass is the problem, they create no problem. Except…couple of things. First, mass is not the only thing that matters. It’s one of many attributes that drive
…performance and safety risk. Even at the same mass, evidence is compelling that men are stronger than women. In fact, to match strength, you often need a male who is 20% to 30% lighter than a female. So simply focusing on mass misses many of the factors for safety & performance
But more to the point, where do you set a threshold? Should it be 75kg? 90kg? 60kg? No matter where you set it, the group of humans who fall just under it, AND who have strength & speed advantages would all be male. So this idea of ‘limits’ is a shortcut to ‘no women in sport'
Second, it’s a misunderstanding of why categories exist. Do you allow a 27 year old adult to play against 17 year old children if they’re “a bit smaller than average and not that strong”? Would you allow a weak heavyweight to fight middleweights just because they lack strength?
In other words, why make an exception that allows someone to cross into a protected category just because that person lacks the attributes that category is associated with? The sexes are divided by sex, not weight/strength etc, even though they may be correlated with it.
Next, a philosophical question - if sport is to set up some kind of ‘bright line test’ to decide which applicants for women’s sport should be allowed in and which should not, how does one draw that line? Is sport going to decide who is “womanly enough” for sporting purposes?
On what basis might sport decide that person A cannot play women’s sport, but person B can? Some complex algorithm that factors in all the relevant attributes? Think of how that would be tested. It’s more discriminatory than ever, and lacks rigor and integrity. I can’t see how
…sport can be tasked with running that test. It would also have to be ‘cheat proof’ (look at paralympic classification for why), done regularly, and it would need to be absolutely accurate, or it would not address the risk issues anyway. I don’t know what these tests look like?
In short, the “overlap” argument seems to me to argue for a new way to categorise people for sport, and it’s one that would end women’s participation in sport, because wherever you draw a bright line, biological males will have performance advantages in other attributes around it

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More from @Scienceofsport

Nov 11
At some point in the future, I'll share a presentation that goes through male vs female physiological differences and the biological reality of sport, to explain what some have (wilfully) misunderstood. But for now, here's a pen review of this absurdity promoted by @BJSM_BMJ Image
Number 1 (summary conclusions only, mind) Image
Number 2. This might be the most egregious straw man ever erected. As if anyone really believes it is all muscle size and strength Image
Read 8 tweets
Aug 5
The IOC appear unsure of why sport would test the sex of athletes. In a bonus (short 16min) podcast, I explain the reasons, how categories only work when excluding some people and why screening is not arbitrary but essential to fairness & safety for women: open.spotify.com/episode/0nhX9D…
It strikes me that the IOC response to the controversy is to ignore the test results, instead choosing to criticize the reason for testing. This enables them to deflect the implication of the test results. The reasons for testing, more generally, is what I cover in the podcast 1/
An organization that is sincere about the integrity of women's sport would deal with BOTH issues. By all means, criticize targeted testing & seek a better way to do it (also in the podcast), but recognize that those test results are telling you that males are fighting females 2/
Read 6 tweets
Aug 2
I have some thoughts on this, if I may. First, the cheek swab for those not in the know is a simple and non-invasive test that allows them to distinguish between people who are XX and XY, by scraping cells off the inside of the cheek, and checking under microscope. However...
...the problem for sport is that when it's applied this test in the past, it has produced some controversies. Here's an account from one athlete on their failed test, having previously passed it: What this, and other cases (Ewa Klobukowska) remind us is...thelancet.com/journals/lance…
...that "tests" are not perfect, and this has important implications. However, sport can quite easily work around this, simply by understanding that the cheek swab should not be thought of as a test, but rather a "SCREEN". The difference is that you don't act on the screen result
Read 7 tweets
Apr 16
Basically, IOC paid tens of thousands to show that a small slice of the female population overlaps in performance with a small slice of the male population, and now try to spin it as proof of no advantage. Could’ve watched Boston yesterday to see overlap. It is totally irrelevant
If that slice of the female population happens to come from further towards the “high” end of athleticism, and the male slice is further to the “low” end, of course you’ll find similar performances. Look at the VO2, BMI, Fat %, and you know exactly how this “similarity” was made
And so look at the most crucial section of the paper - participant recruitment & eligibility. It says basically nothing of value for matching 2 populations of interest. I fit these criteria, and I have no expectation that anyone would reasonably compare me to F to assess M adv Image
Read 9 tweets
Nov 23, 2023
@NakulMPande The "unbeatable advantage" bit you have taken from these tweets is you manipulating an argument. Because of normal overlap between the populations, some women outperform many men, everyone knows this. But it's irrelevant, as you surely know, no? Or do you need this explained too?
@NakulMPande I'm guessing you might, so let's put it this way - many women, who are exceptional athletes, outperform most* men. But no women outperform all men. The reverse, however, IS true. Some men outperform all women. Their advantage is insurmountable.

* depending on task/sport type
@NakulMPande So the moment you match the populations (eg: International cricketers, Olympic qualified runners, Top 100 ranked weightlifters), the sex-overlap disappears, and the 'worst' male from that group is better than the best female from her respective group. What does this mean?
Read 11 tweets
Oct 1, 2023
The South African commentators and studio pundits still don’t understand the four elements of the head contact process. Quite disappointing how superficially they explain it. I know it’s imperfect, but it involves more than our SA viewers are told
@fmessack …assessment (eg low danger if tackler is passive, with “passive of feet planted, not going forward, passive tackler rather than dynamic. Mitigation if suddenly change in direction etc). So it’s systematic, with outcomes determined by the (guided) answer to each question.
@fmessack For example what we saw there for Tonga 9 was assessed as head contact yes, foul play, low danger (tackler passive, not dynamic tackle), so YC. But then with mitigation, so he’s given a pen. One can disagree re degree of danger, then it’s red to YC.
Read 4 tweets

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