Thread by @jillongovt

am spending my Saturday (#T20Blast seems to be rained off) watching @Policy_Exchange on #civilservicereform.. Lord Agnew thinks its the system not the people who are broken

Northcote-Trevelyan was a long time ago and things have moved on.. Rigour has been watered down - no technical assessments before promotions leads to lack of commercial skills.. but gaps in data - contract overruns

obsession with policy as theory not as impact on people.. but implementers rarely in room when policy made - but impact on the most dependent.. diversity of georgraphy and cognition needed (don't think anyone will challenge this motherhoody list)

addiction to consultants... Fast Stream recruits same as consultants.. they give them 2 weeks training then charge £ 500 an hour (see @instituteforgov guide on managing consultants instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publications/m…

Simone Finn think civil service is all about implementation - and is poor at that .. advice and challenge yes - but implement services for the citizen (comment - VERY narrow view of govt .... )

policy and implementation divorced.. gives example of UC .. policy in Whitehall , implementation in Sheffield =, IT in Warrington (not sure how this squares with the new dispersion agenda)

Not perm secs not being sacked.. they are coming ot end of contracts .. pleased to see that working.. (not sure Jonathan Slater or Mark Sedwill would see it that way) .. CS neither neutral nor independent -- serve that govt (she's right on that)

need to be able to command trust of ministers (agree on that - think this is a big failing of civil service -- ministers think they can discard civil service advice with little risk) -- NT reforms promoted a view of elitism...

Now Dame Patricia Hodgson - we need competent officials who serve elected govt. Focus on talent.. best officials the best but harder to find them - question why -- Blairite daily political initiatives eroded confidence... now FOI cuts civil service out

Pay also a big issue - pte sector many times that now.. also about change.. son's generation see pandemic as making civil service more attractive.. need a smaller, better and more skilled civil service. Needs cash and tackling dead hand of HR.

Find time to manage out deadweight (think most people would be up for that) .. young talent stymied on promotion (I think this is very out of date - def true in 1970s and 1980s.. has she been near the Treasury recently..)

Hodgson claiming people found pandemic energsiing as normal rules suspended.. Ministers must set clear priorities - needs more training for new ministers and llong serving private office/adviser teams.

civil service mustn't leak or pursue a different agenda or lag on reforms it doesn't like

Last up is @DLidington - want 3 things - candour.. minister needs to know that civil servants will offer frank critiques grounded in evidence.. means mutual trust and no briefings in either direction..

openness to challenge and critical thinking.. too many views too predictable..who is consulted... eg @OpenEurope not on old @FCDOGovUK stakeholder list .. tyranny of departmental line (agree on that .. strength of HMT)

Capacity and skill to implement and follow through.. nothing in Ditchley lecture that he or senior civil service woudl disagree.. agree with need for cohesive centre - No.10, CO and HMT .. need to join up (see @instituteforgov on #netzero - this is key)

so stronger centre.. and devolution - not just relocation .. real autonomy to mayoral and unitatry authorities as have convening power..

finally an end to ministerial merrry go round - and agrees on ministerial training - paging @cath_haddon @timd_IFG - ministers also have to give cover for civil servants for risks worth taking..

Finally, finally - ministers need to remember the importance of morale.. ministers need to get ducks in the row.. and understanding throughout big organisations of how policies are supposed to work...key ingredient .. OK .. that's the end of opening comments

OK - @rosskempsell raises skills issue first .. Lord Agnew says training landscape fragmented (think he might want to ask Simone Finn on why training so dispersed.. we used to have a National School for Govt..)

much more rigorous pass/fail culture.. civil servants allowed to do things they aren't up to - very worrying.. focus on assurance you have to pass the training.. could be liberating..

running first ever ministerial training course on infrastructure .. very useful.. Simone Finn thinks project and digital skills missing... @GDSTeam a great success...now talking about functional centre .. core of expertise led properly and flow through govt

problem noone disagrees.. but then dept heads say doesn't affect delivery .. and depts won't participate.. need to focus on what they are supposed to be doing..need to allow centre to direct.. give @GDSTeam teeth again to join up dept silos

recruitment of staff at universities -- civil service doesn't try to persuade best people to join.. great place to work (not sure Fast Stream programme reform she lauds worked.. why depts like HMT opted out..)

Can't believe I am spending my lunchtime listening to people talk abotu the functional agenda.. Maude report apparently just delivered.. Lord Agenw wants a normal centre..

clearly signalling desire to reimpose central control on spend £ 112 bn has got out of control - no idea what this figure is @GavinFreeguard?

Hodgson suggests looking to the military and military training colleges.. creating a sense of shared purpose (bring back NSG????)

Lidington - some about pay @AlexGAThomas @lewisalloyd - also wants more public-private movement - seen as natural in US (NB not sure the movers he's talking about are doing delivery.. tend to move to think tanks/law firms/lobbyists)

More on Carillion -shocked to find after that no specific training on contract management.. depts didn't want to pay .. HMT top sliced.. Functions must be involved in spending reviews -can't be bilateral chats between depts and HMT

leads to spending based on convenient dodgy assumptions which blow up down the line.. Cabinet has to sign up to clear priorities and sharing responsibilities.. Cabinet cannot just be seen as people who explain policy others have decided (Hmmm)

Finn agrees on ministerial training.. whole of Cabinet signed up to model under coalition .. never been reversed .. used to be a Cabinet Cttee of Alexander-Maude on efficiency .. saving money for frontline.. but officials disregarded conclusions

Now onto culture.... what needs to happen to ministerial/civil service.. Agnew agrees ministers should take more responsibility and thinks there should be more letetrs of direction (agree with this - as did Maude)

I suggested that as an outcome of Williamson debacle - needs to go wider than VFM - @UKandEU . Agnew says v hard to challenge in his role as borders minister because new to it.. ukandeu.ac.uk/the-new-doctri…

Hodgson now talking about leadership - officials must not play to the gallery .. need to be impartial in the office (I think people are by and large .. so not sure what her bad experience is) - also supports directions ..

Finn says civil service culture rewards preserving status quo (think this is rubbish BTW) - but risk averse .. (think readiness of ministerial blame culture promotes that) .. Finn also supports more directions - but mistake to extrapolate from crisis..

there are always more directions when there is a crisis - see 2008-2010... Finn points to culture of non-implementation while agreeing with minister..

Finally @DLidington on Brexit .. never felt there was a problem with officials resisting what govt ministers trying to do . basic problem was that the Cabinet was divided and making it very clear in briefings.. left respective officials in dilemma

Had to choose between PM view and their SoS.. have to start with clear collectively agreed policy - otherwise prospects of action limited.. Minister/spad/PO need to make clear they will progress chase

chief responsibility with minister - agree on giving space to try something and fail... the more senior in civil service you are, the more you are clearly responsible, the harder it is to shuffle blame onto the minister..

Got beaten up over human errors in FCO .. Lidington grovelled .. but next day would have the director to make sure no repeat .. do share anger when see an NHS Trust criticised on basic standards and then execs move sideways. also happens in Whitehall

Lord Agnew thinks SR will happen - more space created by Budget postponement.. govt suffocated by mertolpolitan elite thinking by SW1 concentration - focus on moving senior civil service.. if get them out of London will get diversity of thought..

Claims civil servants hate discussing in front of ministers (really .. he needs to read Ken Clarke's Ministers Reflect interview... does he really work @hmtreasury

Closing: Hodgson wants interdept hubs around the country .. don't just ship whole depts to one place.. Finn - v encouraged by discussion .. claims criticism heretical in early 2010s (er no....) sees wind behind reform

Lidington - pleased if SR goes ahead.. welcomes spirit.. emphasises lots of civil servants who will be very signed up to reform agenda.. regional hubs yes, but not as sub for devolution - use private office and spads to understand dept. ENDS