Thread by @StrangelEdweird

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra You seem to be misunderstanding Rod's position, and I don't think it's totally your fault. These terms often create confusion. I think that when Rod says that inequality is not justified, he only means "in a moral sense." That doesn't mean he's intending to limit other freedoms.

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra I don't see how attempting to correct certain inequalities automatically means limiting the freedom of others, which seems to be your assumption. It is the mere recognition of a problem as a problem, and based on that recognition a conversation can be had about solutions.

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra Personally, I have a "forget the ceiling; raise the floor" approach. I don't care how rich or prosperous you get, so long as no one is left to languish in an unbreakable cycle of poverty, debt, and suffering that limits social mobility. We want to grant more freedom to all.

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra It is fundamentally unfair that people are born with different skills, and that society values different skills differently. It's not the fault of the person born a talented painter that our society doesn't value her art the way it might have 500 years ago. Why should she suffer?

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra The whole point of society is to create structures that mitigate the unfairness of nature in order to maximize flourishing. Given that no one chooses their genes, their parents, their upbringing, or their talents, no one is more or less "deserving" of that flourishing.

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra There are smart and stupid ways to approach this problem, and many people espouse what I would consider stupid ones. For example, removing blind auditions from symphony orchestras in order to achieve ethnic parity. This is silly, and helps no one.

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra But recognizing that perhaps not enough minorities have the chance to cultivate a musical aptitude, and recognizing that we as a society benefit from having more musical geniuses, regardless of where they're born, we can implement programs and policies...

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra to ensure that all children have access to musical education. This way any geniuses have the opportunity to flourish, and this isn't contingent upon whether they're born in Harlem or Westchester. It's unlikely to create parity in all orchestras everywhere, but it doesn't have to.

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra I don't see how this approach limits anyone's freedom to do anything they wish, unless you're going to complain about "who pays for it," in which case my response is, "We do. The same way we pay for roads we'll never drive on, and for the same reasons."

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra The fact is that if we cultivate a society where all people live above a certain standard consistent with our ethics, we *all* benefit. We all benefit from maximizing human creativity and ingenuity, and we should do everything we can to find it and foster it wherever it exists.

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra This may be dismissed as utopic, but I fail to see where any of this is pie-in-the-sky. I think it's perfectly grounded and practical, and it only requires our will to act to begin implementing.

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra And as for those of us who aren't born with creativity or ingenuity that we as a society happen to favor, that shouldn't be a death sentence for them. There should. be a standard beneath which we simply do not allow anyone to live. And we can do that. We already do, but poorly.

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra And part of the reason is because we still have this idea that people make themselves, that people choose their choices. They don't. Not only is there no such thing as a "self-made millionaire/billionaire," there's no such thing as "self-made."

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra Once you recognize that, it becomes profoundly immoral to let someone suffer a life of poverty and lack of opportunity. We can fix that, and we should.

@tenin0 @roderickgraham @ConceptualDoc @IanAdAstra Lastly, in response to the question about where we set the bar, that's also not a difficult thing to work with. We do it with health already. We don't need to perfectly define "health" to know what we want to avoid, and to work toward keeping people above a certain standard.