Thread by @KuldeepGaurav7

@raghurajs_hegde [THREAD]
I have had discussion with an Allopathy supremacist before, which is based on western supremacism which derives validity from Christian supremacism. (Refer Shree C K Raju Ji's work on this, particularly: "Is science Western in origin?")

Point wise refutation to 1/n

@raghurajs_hegde your claim. The earlier discussion was more detailed, parts of it refutes your claims:

Is Ayurveda science:
It's only empirical data which carries any credibility because only through empirical data can it be positively asserted that something works or doesn't. Let us put it /2

@raghurajs_hegde to objective approach of scientific study. The scientific study postulates a hypothesis but only after it gains buttress of empirical data (The research conducted), can the Hypothesis establish to be a Theory as proved or disproved, subject to constant verification of it not /3

@raghurajs_hegde being proven as wrong.
Now the Hypothesis claimed may have different structures. For ex, One Hypothesis claims that by taking a certain medicine will elevate your 'pitta' dosha, thereby balancing all the 'doshas' and rid you of your ailment.
Whilst another Hypothesis claims /4

@raghurajs_hegde that a particular chemical in the same Medicine, 'the active ingredient' attaches itself to a certain enzyme and decreases the output of certain bodily function and thereby allowing another body function to work normally and hence treats the ailment.
Now if both empirically /5

@raghurajs_hegde prove to be sound (treatment works), they both are credible on scientific podium. Furthermore, if some other ailment, concerning same bodily functions or same disbalance in 'doshas' and treatment can be based on the same Hypothesis (this is again empirical data), it further /6

@raghurajs_hegde reinforces the claim. The nonsensical understanding that does not consider scientific study done by other civilizations to be scientific with the understanding that all the scientific developments have been done in Europe and hence considers only one structure of Hypothesis to /7

@raghurajs_hegde be credible is the bias which does not hold valid on scientific grounds.

2. Testing is always a measure:
We are not against testing, infact it is very important that we do that so that we can establish efficacy of a traditional medicine in modern terms, provided the modern /8

@raghurajs_hegde medicine does not 'steal' the traditional knowledge by claiming to have established clinical solution, this is actually a problem.This is one of the things which is a direct impact of what i am trying to convey, the suggestibility of "unscientific" is very wrong in that it /9

@raghurajs_hegde effectively denies any credibility whatsoever to traditional medicine claiming them to be something akin quackery by omitting the fact that the medicines utilised must have chemicals (same as is modern medicine) which treats the ailment and by doing so when the treatment /10

@raghurajs_hegde medicine, say a plant, is put to clinical testing, identifying the active ingredient and appropriating the treatment by this very claim of quackery and in disregard of traditional medicine, in this case Ayurveda. Infact in many cases this turns out to be harmful for the entire/11

@raghurajs_hegde composition of the plant was what was contributing to the overall treatment and keeping away side-effects. This is being approved by modern research that mere active ingredient is not wholesome treatment in many cases. /12

@raghurajs_hegde 3. The Dilemma of Medical science:
Let us ssay there is a medicine which is claimed to increase immunity and if the person heals by taking the medicine, what treated him, his immunity or the medicine? Let us observe a complicated version of this, If someone is told to stop a /13

@raghurajs_hegde certain kind of food or start eating a certain kind of food or both and is asked to change the scenery and maybe live in the mountains a couple of months and his problem, whatever it may have been is treated, what would you think treated him? This is a problem, the modern /14

@raghurajs_hegde medical development has bred the definition of drug to be understood as, 'Pop a pill, and the symptoms go away, pop a pill and kill the bacteria and the symptoms go away. Is this entire treatment? Does it treat the disease or the symptoms? What if the symptoms keep changing /15

@raghurajs_hegde Is it the same disease or different ones? What if the actual problem is causing various diseases? (Someone works in a coal mine) What if, the current medical development is unable to provide relief to the patient?

If the examples above of treatment is replicable, would you /16

@raghurajs_hegde say that it is the placebo effect? Can the entire genre of empirical reliability be encompassed under the placebo effect?

Now, let us analyse another aspect of this. Take for example some of the traditional medicinal forms, Ayurveda is based on the 'tridosha' and their /17

@raghurajs_hegde disbalance causes ailments, Traditional Chinese medicine is based on Ying - Yang and their balance and the flow of chi, it must also be understood that, these medicinal forms are different from let us say, medicinal form developed by a tribe in Papa New Guinea, for the /18

@raghurajs_hegde difference education, research, development and total empirical data available of these seperate Civilizations - although they may as well have medicines which treats their local problems and will have both aspects - actual treatment and quackery, as opposed to modern medicine/19

@raghurajs_hegde which actually has no single Medical postulation and relies on a bunch of researches many of them incomplete and still underway. Infact further research has shown many earlier researches to be non-reproducable, i.e unscientific.

Let me further expound on that by an example, /20

@raghurajs_hegde what is food? In modern terms it is what you eat and goes to your stomach and this is the definition opted by modern medicine as well, however the 'Ayurveda' describes food or ''Aahaar' as what goes in your body not merely stomach and this includes sound, light, smell, even /21

@raghurajs_hegde thoughts and the modern researches are very rapidly coming up with the effects of mental ambience during treatment, even the skin has olfactory reception. There is much importance given to Manas or Mind in Ayurveda. However, it is only in last couple of decades that the modern/22

@raghurajs_hegde has truly embraced the linking of mental phenomenon with actually physiological changes of the body.

Although, through clinical controlled trials one can differentiate and assort the actual scientific treatment from what doesn't work - and this must be promoted and pushed, /23

@raghurajs_hegde but one must also keep in mind that the traditionand medicine still holds sway for the very reason that modern medicine is far from able in its understanding of the Human Body which many traditionanal medicinal forms have grasped and only that their mode of expression is /24

@raghurajs_hegde different from the modern sense of understanding does not discredited the entire Knowledge system. The advantage of modern medicine is it's research availablity and which is actually mere availability of external instruments to perform research work and this should be promoted/25

@raghurajs_hegde 4. Problems with Allopathy:
As discussed earlier due to lack of a scientific postulation in Allopathy it overtly relies on symptom treatment and with not yet complete researches and many earlier researches being found doubtful has created a situation which does give rise to /26

@raghurajs_hegde the question on claim of Allopathy as medical science as opposed to Ayurveda "which is not an encyclopaedia of ancient Indian medical works but a treatise in biology and propounds a scientific postulation. Its a science of life entire. Though for ease of study we differentiate/27

@raghurajs_hegde between different subjects however, there are no absolute demarcations in nature and hence psychology, sociology, biology, neurology, etc. all are parts of life science of which medical science is also a part." /28

@raghurajs_hegde Many Allopathy promoters will have you believe of the absolutely abysmal state of medicine prior to its coming, banking on something is better than nothing. However, this is entirely baseless, again what is done is the state of medical science in europe is being superimposed /29

@raghurajs_hegde worldwide with the presumption that non-European development is not scientific and does not take into account the progressive state of medical science in a nation like India.

Due to lack of scientific postulation in Allopathy it has so far failed to observe health as a /30

@raghurajs_hegde single entity, the interdependence of the entire body, which is now being termed as Holistic treatment. However with more and more research, modern medicine also could not deny it's impact and it too has slowly accomodated lifestyle and other measures over the past 20-25 years/31

@raghurajs_hegde as opposed to Ayurveda or Siddha, millenia old or Unani or Homeopathy, relatively younger but much senior to allopathy, so what we do observe is even allopathy is moving in the direction of holistic treatment, which is logical considering it's age. It's going through the /32

@raghurajs_hegde normal course of evolution of a medical science.

We also must address the claims of modern drugs going through rigorous testing. Let us address the dark side of modern drugs. Almost all of them have side effects (the truth of side effects not producing symptoms as in the /33

@raghurajs_hegde disclaimer is another matter for the side effects do create the effects but may not create symptoms), this causes issues not present in the body before leading to another ailment for which you take another drug which further creates another ailment (This is what I addressed /34

@raghurajs_hegde as modern researches showing that extracting only the active ingredient is not always a good practice in the previous comment - neither is it economically suitable). The truth of such claims is the reason people opt for other forms of medicine (in developed countries, large /35

@raghurajs_hegde chunk of whose economy is dependant on big pharma use the term alternate medicine to present a derogatory picture - In India term 'quackery' has been outright allotted to it.

FURTHERMORE, I will reiterate, I do not claim that there may not be any mistaken forms of treatment,/36

@raghurajs_hegde or quackery, or misguided, even misinterpreted forms present in all forms of Traditional Medicine. Some of them more than others, for example Ayurveda is being tested on the modern grounds of development and analysis and it's claims are being established as true, but such /37

@raghurajs_hegde researches are yet far from complete. Similarly, We must put to test every aspect of such claims but not with our eyes closed and certainly not only in the mould of allopathy, especially considering it is far from developed.

But at the same time we must allow natural /38

@raghurajs_hegde development for other forms of successful medical sciences for this will allow it's evolution and the knowledge of Humanity and not limit ourselves to allopathy. However we must follow scientific approach and rigour and compile all forms to produce a single form of holistic /39

@raghurajs_hegde medicine with regional variations ofcourse.
40/40

@raghurajs_hegde Aha! I was looking for this to supply buttress to the point I made.

Had read this, but wasn't able to find it at that time.

Thank you🙏 Shree @subhashkak Ji.

https://twitter.com/subhash_kak/status/1330851646147014663?s=19