Thread by @edwardW2

in this most stimulating video, the learned Dr @JeffreyKotyk makes the case- iter alia- for considering astrology as part of religion, or indeed, a form of religion of itself.

The argument he makes is roughly as such- From the earliest times, we find that the planets were treated as deities; even to this day we refer to the wandering stars by the name of Saturn, Jupiter, Venus etc. This is a common feature all across Eurasia-- India, Rome, Greece, even

China, where the planets- which were initially perceived as simple manifestations of the 5 phases, eventually became treated as gods. <we shall provide one eg: a Daoist scripture, in which mantras for the 11 planets are found: > archive.org/details/11yao/…

There is a second reason in favor of this classification astrology and religion would be very well studied together.
From the current, western philosophical perspective, both astrology and religion deal with unfalsifiable claims; they hence can be classed in the same category...

but more importantly, every major religion across Eurasia has interacted with astrology in some way; for example, in some buddhist texts, it is taken as common knowledge that some tithis (astrologically determined time periods) are more auspicious than others.

Dr Kotyk tells us that despite a century of Buddhist studies in the west, no-one had, prior to him, brought up this extensive intersection and interaction of Buddhism and astrology.

<we could bring up even more examples of this intersection; the surangama mantra, for example, is said to cure planetary afflictions;

https://twitter.com/edwardW2/status/1314093496840515586

Likewise, the Daoist Big Dipper Scripture tells us “太上北斗七元君，能解九星厄" (The Most High 7 stars of the northern Dipper, can resolve the evils of the 9 Planets); Indeed, this whole scripture concerns astral deities.
archive.org/details/beidou…

Dr Kotyk tells us that a common theme in the religious aspects of astrology, is that the devotees negotiate their fate with the various astral deities; in the 2 egs above, we see a very similar thing-- the promise of transcending the fate bestowed by the planets>

this has continued to the present day:

https://twitter.com/edwardW2/status/1314099560948461568

In turn, Dr. Kotyk comments as to why this is so: Religious studies departments still have a great many theologians (of the western school) who are averse to astrology; holding it to be some kind of extraneous superstition.

in general, the academic study of astrology has fallen between the cracks, so to speak-- too strange for either philosophy, religion or science.

Dr Kotyk notes (in the earlier point of the vid) that as much as recieved attitude to astrology in the west is disbelief, in reality there are far more people who have a passive attitude towards astrology, than outright reject it.

Regarding astrology in contemporary China, judging by the stuff available on Taobao (a Chinese ecommerce website) it is booming-- astrological almanacs and treatises are available fairly readily; this is even after a sort of crackdown on the sale of such books on the website

Later on in the video, Dr. Kotyk mentions how circumscribed the current academic study of astrology is; he notes that he had only managed to publish his study on 16thc, Chinese astrology, in a journal of religion because it was connected in some way to Buddhism...

< The twitter accts of the people are:
@CometanOfficial
@JeffreyKotyk >

Another example of astrological influence in religion can be found in the whole Wiccan calendar-- the Sabbats and Esbats, are nothing but astrological.

Going even further, the Christian date of easter is based on the movements of the sun and moon...

At this point, though, one wonders if the concept of "astrology" as it is commonly used breaks down. By that logic, the Gregorian calendar is astrological, for it is an attempt at regulating time through regularly recurring astronomical phenomena...

Still, this does not deny the overall thesis of the most learned Dr. Kotyk: all religions across Eurasia, have, in some shape or form, interacted with celestial phenomena.

Put another way, what these religions have done is to humanise the celestial; relating it to humanity; much in the same manner as erecting a house turns undifferentiated space into place, these cultural practises divide the undifferentiated sky, and relate it to the human.

<A version of this is one of my little hot takes about astrology- astrology can be seen as a kind of applied astronomy. this was certainly the case in the middle ages, where the main demand for astrology was things like weather prediction and electing times for surgery...

... this is of course, reductive and a rather etic approach, but it is interesting to compare this to other modern practises-- eg the results of human psychology being applied to manage workers more efficiently>

addendum: even then the definition of 'god' ought to be used with caution in this case. James Miller's "the way of highest clarity" is valuable in this regard, and worth citing in full.
. .

https://twitter.com/edwardW2/status/1337075420127055873

Basically the gods of Shangqing daoism were not 'personal' in the sense of possessing individual wills and personalities. Rather they are akin to bureaucrats; beings whose power does not derive from their own characteristics, but rather from their position in a hierarchy

He cites this example with the rite used when a person has successfully completed the various meditations to become an immortal. You basically encounter the gods and then tell them "I have done all that is required of me to become an immortal, please register me as one."

the god in this case has no individual will: they just register the applicant's information as impersonally as a filing clerk registers documents.

As much as all this ritual is patterned after courtly ritual, what the adept is actually doing in the process of ritual is engaging with the subtle forces of nature- which have been given human shape, presumably for convenience.

A similar thing might be said of the astral gods

It is true that some spirit or god may reside in the planets and. However, this god may not necessarily possess an individual personality or will, (like a buddhisatva or god) It just simply dispenses it jovial/martial/saturnine influence to earth

in accordance with the rules of the cosmos. However, it is nonetheless possible to meaningfully interact with said god through appropriate rituals, much as you can produce rain through cloud seeding.

Thus this anthropomorphisation of the five phases etc. is not some kind of corruption, but, to use miller's terms, to use human interactions/courtly ritual as a packaging for real-world transformation.

[I think there's a similar distinction between these gods which behave in a mechanistic manner as opposed to those which actually have wills in western occultism too; but I must defer to the opinion of @polyphanes ]

@neilalexanderw1 which gave them certain powers [iirc you were not manhandled by the officials of the underworld and generally more protected against malign spirits]; the first registers were given as a child but more were given as you grew older; if you wanted to become a cleric you could

@neilalexanderw1 get more registers.

[it is an amusing thought to consider if Joseph Smith is America's Zhang Daoling -- CC @AOHSUsometimesY @yuxuan_tay :) ]