Kent Lee Platte Profile picture
Dec 14, 2020 97 tweets 21 min read Read on X
Since we're talking about bad draft picks, I think it's time for one of those old walks down memory lane, y'all. Wanna walk through the past few GMs and their draft classes?

We're gonna go back a ways.
So the Lions have always had a wonky front office set up. How they've had it under Wood/Quinn/Patricia is probably the most easily understood power structure they've had in decades, and probably the best organized (in theory, obviously, still gotta hire the right people).
Pre-Millen, they had a guy named Chuck Schmidt.

Schmidt took over the Lions in 1989 and was pretty stand offish. Kind of like how Rod Wood is today, really, he just kinda hired people and then pissed off somewhere.
In fact, MFer doesn't even have a wiki page. He just kind of existed. They never even fired him, he resigned. in 2001 a day after hiring Matt Millen.

In that span, the team's head coaches (Wayne Fontes, Bobby Ross and Gary Moeller) managed the team. But we'll look at them anyway
1989 saw the Lions under Wayne Fontes. They went 7-9, but they drafted some Barry Sanders guy in the first round and I think he did okay. Image
Their 2nd round pick was a guy named John Ford. You'll be forgiven for not remembering him, he only played in 1989 and only caught five passes. Hell of an athlete in his time, but never amounted to anything. Image
Third round pick was Mike Utley, who is unfortunately remembered for reasons other than being a great player, but he was one. He was paralyzed in 1991 and never played again.
In the 4th round they drafted Ray Crockett, who would play in the NFL for 11 seasons, though only five for Detroit.

He was pretty good.

The rest of that draft was pretty much a wash, even if you include Rodney Peete who was drafted in the 6th round.
So first draft for Fontes had some ups and downs, but overall landed some good talent and one gold star guy.

And then nothing bad ever happened to the Detroit Lions again.
1990 saw the Lions take Andre Ware 7th overall. He was...not as good as Barry Sanders. Rodney Peete, drafted the year before and far later outperformed Ware in every way.
They took Dan Owens in the 2nd round and he was fine. Had 20 sacks over eight total seasons with Detroit, but had two of his best years playing in Atlanta.

3rd rounder Marc Spindler fared far worse, 9.5 sacks over 7 seasons.

4th rder Rob Hinckley never played.
Their other 4th rounder, Chris Oldham, played all 16 games as a rookie then became a journeyman, floating around wherever.

8th rounder Roman Fortin was a Center and he started 102 games...100 of which were not for Detroit. He was gone by 1992.
Their other 8 picks aren't worth mentioning. Moving on.
1991 saw the Lions take Herman Moore with the 10th overall pick, their third top ten pick so far.

He was what historians refer to as "Dope as hell" and "Pretty damn amazing by any metric" so we don't need to say much here.

There's no Herman Moore gif, so here's Herman Munster.
The rest of that draft class?

Nine players, collectively playing in 13 seasons total, six of which were from 5th round tackle Scott Conover, only one as a full time starter.
They had no 2nd round pick, and 3rd round WR Reggie Barrett caught 4 passes in 2 seasons.

Another super athlete who didn't pan out, but don't worry, 17 years later they'd land a 10.00 RAS guy who hits hard. Image
They went 12-4 in 1991, the high water mark of not only Wayne Fontes' career but the Lions in general. Their drafts overall were shaky, but the superstar talent they landed would carry the team for years, off and on.

No Wayne Fontes gif, so here's Garth for whatever.
Drafting later in the round, and with fewer picks to work with, the Lions take Robert Porcher with the 26th overall pick in 1992.

He was great and we have nothing bad to say about him.

No gif for Procher either, but here's one that came up searching his name that is ominous.
Their two second round picks were Tracy Scroggins, another DE, who played until 2001, all for Detroit. He was a good pick, notching 60.5 sacks in his career.
The other guy was a kicker. Jason Hanson is a boss, but boss as he is you know that kinda thing wouldn't fly in 2020.
The rest of that class was a wash, but at least they hit early.
That high water mark for Fontes and the Lions? They went 5-11 the following year, going from first to last in their division. Womp womp.
1993 saw the team with only six picks, and it was...something.

2nd rounder CB Ryan McNeil played 11 season, but only 4 for Detroit and he was okay.

LB Antonio London played 5 years for Detroit, but only started parts of two. He notched 13 sacks and 119 tackles in five years.
Mike Compton was their 3rd round pick and hit the best for the team. He was a good guard for nearly a decade here.

The rest of the class stuck around a while, but none did anything of note for the Lions or anyone else.

Here's a 1993 gif.
Apparently have to restart my compy, so I'll be back in a few.
1994 starts off with another WR (We haven't even gotten to the part of Lions history where this becomes a running gag!).

Johnnie Morton would be a pretty good pick, landing some solid years in a strong career.
Tony Semple (5th rd)was a solid, if unremarkable guard over a long career in Detroit. Depth, eventually a spot starter later in his career.

The rest of that draft class, though, no bueno.

2nd rder Van Malone wasn't good, neither was 3rd rder Shane Bonham.
1995 was the last time Fontes would make the playoffs, and would be his third wildcard loss in a row.

His draft netted Luther Ellis, who was very good, and fan favorite David Sloan at tight end.

5th rder Stephen Boyd became a pro bowler, while 6th rder Corey Slesinger was great
All in all, it was a good draft, but the team would only win 5 games in 1996 and that was the end of Fontes.
Both Reggie Brown and Jeff Hartings didn't work out as 1st round picks, though for different reasons. Brown struggled before a career ending injury in 1997, while Hartings was very good, but simply moved on to greener pastures at the end of his rookie deal.
The rest of that draft, Ryan Stewart, Brad Ford, and Kerwin Waldroup, didn't work out at all.
Ultimately, the Wayne Fontes era was all about high risk and high reward. He often drafted players who tested off the charts, but usually too early. Talented players who found their footing were done in by Wayne Fontes the coach, who was never consistent enough to stay on top.
You know that moment on a roller coaster where you sit right at the crest of the big drop and the whole car seems to hover in that moment for a few seconds?
1997 saw the Lions bring in Bobby Ross, who would go 9-7 in his first season in Detroit.

While Wayne Fontes had Barry Sanders, Bobby Ross had Bryant Westbrook.
Westbrook actually had a solid rookie and sophomore season, but it quickly went off the rails. He started getting hurt a lot in 1999 and in 2000 he tore his achilles. 20 years later and we're only just now seeing guys rejuvinate their careers from that, back then that was it.
The rest of that draft? 2nd rounders Juan Roque (OT) and Kevin Abrams (DB) didn't do much at all. Roque only ever started 3 games and was out of the league after year 2.

The rest of the class was nothing worth mentioning.
The team drafted Terry Fair in 1998, yes a DB after a DB the year before (this has been and will be a trend). Fair was like his name. Not what you want from a first rounder.

2nd rders Germaine Crowell and Charlie Batch?
Crowell had one really good year (1,338 yds and 7TDs!) and four poor ones (adding up to about 1400 yds and 9 TDs).

Batch started fo ra bit in Detroit, but was never very good. He would be one of the best backups in the NFL for nearly a decade, though, and is now a coach.
With his carriage fully hitched to Charlie Batch and having missed badly on his OL picks, Bobby Ross drafted Chris Claiborne in 1999 and Aaron Gibson in the first round.

Claiborne, like Fair, was alright. Not what you want with your first rounders.
Aaron Gibson? He washed out of Detroit by year two due to injuries.

2nd rounder Jared Devries stuck around for a long time, but was often injured. Playing for 10 seasons in Detroit, he had only 16.5 career sacks.
I'm not going to bother with the rest of this draft class, because they did nothing and this was just an awful draft for Detroit.
Bobby Ross's final draft was in 2000.

He liked big tackles who couldn't play, so he took another one in Stockar McDougle with his first pick.

His second pick was Barrett Green, another mediocre linebacker.

3rd rounder Reuben Droughns was gone by 2002.

Nobody else to mention
So as much as we like to clown Bob Quinn, Martin Mayhew, and even Matt Millen, I want to take a small aside to just remind everyone both how incredibly inept Bobby Ross the GM was and how much Barry Sanders and co. carried the Detroit Lions.
Bob Quinn wasn't great, but just contrast and compare:

Okudah,Hockenson,Ragnow,Davis, and Decker

vs

McDougle,Claiborne,Gibson,Fair, and Westbrook

So while we all agree Quinn's firing was justifiable, miss me with the "Worst GM ever" nonsense, we've seen MUCH worse.
The year is 2001.

The Lions have had four back to back bad drafts.

Barry Sanders is retired, Herman Moore is soon to follow. Charlie Batch is your starting QB.

We crested over that hill and are headed into a free fall. It will be more than a decade before this team breaks .500
2001 saw 'fan favorites' Jeff Backus, Dominic Raiola, and Shaun Rogers picked up in the firs two rounds of Matt Millen's tenure. They combined for more than 550 games played in their careers and had their ups and downs.

This year was important for a different reason, though.
Matt Millen's hiring in 2001 marked a shift in the Detroit Lions front office. No longer was Chuck Schmidt mulling about somewhere while the coaches had free reign to make a mess of things. No, we had a General Manager.

No gif of Millen, so here's an orangutan.
2002 was the Joey Blue Skies draft! We've got a franchise quarterback!

This era does not end well.
2nd rounder Kalimba Edwards was around for a while. He wasn't very good.

3d rder Andre' Goodman ended up being alright, but only years after he left Detroit.

Roudns 4-7 were a wash.
The beginning of an era!

2002 saw the Lions draft Charles Rogers despite him being an anthropomorphized red flag. As a player, he was awful, injured, and often in trouble.

Sadly, he died last year.
Fan favorite Boss Bailey was next and he was an alright 2nd round pick.

Cory Redding was the 3rd pick and he was also pretty alright.

Artose Pinner was 4th and he was very bad.

Value wise, they hit on two later rd guys in Terrence Holt and James Davis. The last 4 picks missed.
2004 saw the Lions draft ANOTHER 1st round WR in Roy Williams. He would go on to give Megatron his nickname and to allow the Lions to rob the Cowboys. Otherwise, terrible pick.
Tell me if you've heard this one before.

Lions drafted an early round (1st) RB who flashed some talent but injuries ultimately led to a drop in play, snaps, and eventually moving on.

Kevin Jones, 30th overall.

Their 2nd rounder, Teddy Lehman, started hot then bombed.
3rd-7th rounders washed.
2005 and Lions took, you guessed it, ANOTHER wide receiver.

Mike Williams was big and awful.

2nd rder Shaun Cody was alright, mostly after he left.

3rd-7th washed, EXCEPT Dan Orlovsky who became an okay backup and eventual media guy.
It's now 2006. We've actually went through three coaches already in the Millen era, Marty Mornhinweg who went 5-27,Steve Mariucci went 15-28, and Dick Jauron who went 5-1.

Rod Marinelli was brought in by Millen (who is still here!) to help the floundering franchise.
Joey Blue Skies is done in Detroit and we've moved on to Jon Kitna. This, too, does not end well.
2006 saw, nope, you thought it was another wide receiver didn't you, nope!

Ernie Sims was drafted 9th overall and he was, I don't now, okay. Not as bad as some remember, but he certainly wasn't good.

2nd rounder Daniel Bullocks was bad, as was 3rd rounder Brian Calhoun.
Yes, Brian Calhoun.

As the story goes, the Lions were trying to take Max Jean-Gilles but took too long discussing it.

Someone in the back of the room yelled out "Take Brian Calhoun!"

So the Lions did.

This is a real NFL franchise, people. One of the oldest and most storied.
Rounds 4-8 washed in 2006.
2007 and the Lions take their 4th WR in the first round in 5 seasons. Some guy named Clavin Johnson.

Sorry, Calvin Johnson. I guess he did alright since this is considered the best of those four top picks by a wide margin.
Lions 2nd round pick was a local QB named Drew Stanton, who has been a journeyman backup for a long time. Kind of like Charlie Batch, only not nearly as good.
Their other 2nd rounder was Ikaika Alama-Francis from Hawaii, a DE who notched a single career sack in 4 years.

Yet another 2nd rounder was Gerald Alexander, another DB since they keep screwing those up.

Rounds 4-7 (no 3rd), say it with me, washed.
Technically Manny Ramirez didn't wash since he did pretty good once he lef,t but he was friggin terrible here.
After going 7-9 in 2007, the Lions were riding high. Confidence was soaring and they were talked about like a real contender and a team on the rise.

This ridiculous media narrative would backfire hilariously in 2008.
2008 would mark one of the most insane, backwards, improbably awful season in NFL history. Aside from expansion teams and goddamn World War II, no team had ever gone winless in the NFL.
The Lions drafted Gosder Cherilus and Jordon Dizon with their first two picks and both were arrested right before the draft in different incidences.

Should have been a sign.

Cherilus would be bad in Detroit, did a bit better in Indy later on but injuries were always an issue.
Dizon was overdrafted for Marinelli's scheme. Unathletic, arrested, and injured, he finished his short career with only 37 solo tackles and 1.0 sack.
The Lions drafted RB Kevin Smith with their 3rd round pick, promise, injuries, you know the drill, this will happen every other season until the end of time.

Their 2nd 3rd round pick was Andre Fluellen, he of the cut and re-signed every year.
Their last 3rd round pick was actually the last good Matt Millen pick. Cliff Avril was a solid speed rusher who improved every year. He priced himself out of Detroit and sadly saw his career end in injury in seattle.
Rounds 4-7 were a wash.

FB Jerome Felton was horrible here, but he actually had a bit of a resurgence once he was gone.
We've reached the end of the Matt Millen era!The Lions didn't clean sweep (more in a minute),tho

He drafted Calvin Johnson, you can say that about him, for sure. Millen has a reputation as the worst GM in the history of the NFL, some say all of sports, and it's a deserved title.
Martin Mayhew was Millen's right hand guy and had been with the Lions since 2001 when he was hired to be their GM in 2009.

William Clay Ford Sr. had a reputation for keeping people too long and preferring his own guys and Mayhew's hiring certainly didn't put that idea to bed.
Historically speaking, though, he might just have been the only one willing to take that job. The Lions were an absolute trash heap of a roster aside from only a few pieces, two of which were receivers, and one of those arguably so.
On to the Martin Mayhew and Gym Shorts era!
Pick 1, round 1, 2009.

The Lions draft Matthew Stafford. They chose him over Mark Sanchez and Aaron Curry, but while those options make it a best of the bad bunch situation Staff has went on to exceed expectations in every way as a player.

The best QB to ever play for Detroit.
Their other 1st round pick, gained by trading away Roy Williams, was Brandon Pettigrew.

While he's largely remembered as a terrible pick, mostly due to drops and injuries (WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAPPEN MORE THAN ONCE???), he actually started out pretty well.
Brandon Pettigrew broke Charlie Sanders' team record twice before the injuries sidelined him too often and Stafford lost confidence in him as a target due to drops. Eventually his blocking started to nose dive and he was gone.
2nd rounder Louis Delmas was a firebrand at first. An unguided missile, he went for the big play every play.

Injuries were a huge problem and only got worse.

3rd rounder DeAndre Levy was a stud...eventually...and only for a short time due to injuries.
Derrick Williams was also taken in the 3rd and he might be the worst 3rd rounder the Lions have ever taken, and I've listed quite a few stinkers.

In two years, he caught only 9 passes for 82 yards.
Their 4th rounder was Sammie Lee Hill, who got pretty good there for a bit before he was priced out.

The rest of the class was a wash.
It became a trend during this period of time for players to get priced out of Detroit. With so many high picks over such a long period of time, and the rookie wage scale years away, the Lions got tied to massive contracts that hamstrung their ability to work free agency.
2010 had the Lions choosing 2nd overall and they tok Ndamukong Suh, a slam dunk pick at the time.

Their other 1st rounder was Jahvid Best, early RB, promise, injuries, you know.
All but one of their other picks was either bad or a complete wash.

Willie Young, though, a 7th round DE was pretty good until injuries piled up.
2011 was...not a good draft.

Nick Fairly went first and injuries/character did him in (he had talent!).

2nd rounder Titus Young lost his mind, ended up in prison.

Other 2nd rounder Mikel Leshoure tore his achilles in camp, again, high RB pick, promise, injuries.

Class stunk.
2012 saw Mayhew showing off several of his biggest flaws.

He took unathletic T Riley Reiff in the 1st, injured WR Ryan Broyles in the 2nd, and small, unathletic corner Bill Bentley in the 3rd.

5th rounder Tahir Whitehead might have been the best value/production pick.
It's now 2013 and the Lions have fired coach Jim Schwartz, but kept Mayhew around after going 4-12 after a 10-6 playoff appearance. This weird straddling coach/GM thing would go on until 2020.
2013 was very easily Martin Mayhew's best draft, and it was oddly in a draft class that was pretty poor overall.

He picked Ziggy Ansah, Darius Slay, and Larry Warford early, each being pro bowlers. He picked another pro bowl worthy player in Sam Martin in the 5th.
In 2014, Mayhew drafted Eric Ebron, who flashed potential but had issues with drops and injuries before he left.

He drafted Kyle Van Noy in the 2nd for a defense that didn't use that type of player, eventually trading him away to a team that did.
His 3rd round pick was another unathletic OL in Travis Swanson and his 4th round pick was another small, unathletic corner in Nevin Lawson. They went as well as you'd expect.
One of Mayhew's worst picks was Larry Webster. A small school DE, he had tons of athleticism but many teams didn't even consider him a DE, but a TE developmental prospect. Mayhew took him in the 4th round, 3 rounds too early. He never played.
Mayhew's last draft in 2015 was for Jim Caldwell, coming off an 11-5 season and WC loss.

He took yet another unathletic OL in Laken Tomlinson, completing his debuild of that unit. Tomlinson would be traded away for a 5th.
His 2nd round pick was a RB, and you know what that means. Early promise, injuries, moved on.

3rd rounder Alex Carter never played.

4th rounder Gabe Wright was a DT they traded up for not named Grady Jarrett.

Then a FB who couldn't stay healthy and a tackle who couldn't either
6th rounder Quandre Diggs hit, but only on and off and most notably after they moved him from corner to safety. Diggs had both the best and the worst season of any Lions nickel in the last decade.
2016 saw Mayhew gone and Bob Quinn finally take his mantle, though with Jim Caldwell and co still on board.

1st rounder Taylor Decker is a stud, though his best years were as a rookie and now.

2nd rounder A'Shawn Robinson was good, kinda okay, but he left in FA.
3rd rounde Graham Glasgow was very good, also let go in FA.

4th rounder Miles Killebrew is an excellent STer.

5th rounder Joe Dahl is an adequate swing tackle, still with the team.

The rest of that draft was bad.
2017 had some of the best and worst picks.

1st rounder Jarrad Davis has been a disaster given how much he plays.

2nd rounder Teez Tabor played in 22 games and never got his hand on a single pass as a corner.

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More from @MathBomb

Apr 28, 2022
We haven't had a player drafted in the 1st round with a #RAS below 5.00 since 2019, where we had three.

Deandre Baker, L.J. Collier, and Dwayne Haskins (RIP).

The COVID years limited testing, but I think teams also played it a lot safer than they would have otherwise.
Will any player under 5.00 be drafed in 2022?

I can't think of one that should. Offhand, I can't even think of a player that MIGHT go in the 1st with a lower score.
2018 only had one player under 5.00, Baker Mayfield who was taken first.
Read 6 tweets
Apr 27, 2022
Happy draft week!

It's been an awesome year and I've got some exciting things cooking for 2023. If youve enjoyed #RAS,please consider donating to help expand the site and help bring some new tools for the draft community in 2023!

venmo.com/mathbomb

paypal.me/Mathbomb
We've been able to add some cool new features to the site this year, courtesy of @StatManEric, including the RAS Compare tool, which allows a side by side comparison of any two prospects compared all time against the RAS database.

RAS.football/ras-compare
We also added a calculator to every single player page, allowing for quick hypotheticals like what a player would score if they were just a little bigger, or if they had tested in an area they didn't for the year.

Like what if Jordan Davis had done the bench and average agis. Image
Read 7 tweets
Aug 31, 2021
It probably won't be quite as fun as most years given the start of a rebuild, but let's run through the #Lions initial 53 mean roster for #RAS!
By now, if you follow me, you probably know my thoughts on Goff.

Clock is ticking before they have a new QB, but given...the next two guys...he's going to start every game he's healthy for.

Unlike the Rams, he won't get benched here for poor play. Not with his price tag.
Tim Boyle is not very accurate, nor is he very good at reading a defense.

What he is, though, is big with a strong arm and pretty athletic. That'll buy you some credit, at least with scout team, when your starter has only one of those things.
Read 53 tweets
May 8, 2021
You know what we haven't looked at in a while? Some outliers.

For #RAS, this normally refers to players who found success in the NFL despite not testing off the charts.

I think it's important to keep some of that in context, that it's not a death knell when a guy isn't superman
Let's kick this off with what is still my favorite low #RAS card, Jarvis Landry!

Landry's combine performance in 2014 was one of the worst in this history of the NFL, in no small part due to pulling his hamstring.

I mean, just look at it!
Landry would test better at his pro day (shown here with his Combine bench since he didn't redo that), but like...still not good. But better!
Read 31 tweets
May 6, 2021
It's still WAY too early to rank them, but having done my preliminary work on 16 QB prospects for 2022, here are my early thoughts.
There are no top tier talents like we had in 2021.

Prior to the 2021 season, there were three QBs vying for the top spot. All three of them would go at the top of the first round, with the addition of a fast riser in Zach Wilson and a late one in Mac Jones.

None like that here.
Doesn't mean that there won't be a top flight QB in 2022, and for reasons I'll go into there almost certainly will be at least one or two.
Read 14 tweets
Dec 11, 2020
Most of my followers are here for the football takes, but I'm a big film, music, and game guy as well.

There are few singers or musicians I mention more often than Sam Cooke, who died on this date in 1964.

Cooke had one of the most unique sounds, both of his day and until now.
These are his top five songs on Spotify, each a timeless classic in his own distinct style, but also varied in tone, topic, and mood.

Cooke could bring it no matter what you were feeling, and you couldn't help but sing along if you were the type to when the mood struck. Image
I'm currently nearly five years older than Cooke was when he was killed, and considering the quality and volume of his work I think it's one of the greatest cultural tragedies that we were robbed of what he could have done with a full career.

Read 5 tweets

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