THREAD: #FireSafetyBill Lords proceedings on amendments now starting. Lord Greenhalgh speaking now.
2/ Watch via Parliament Live here: parliamentlive.tv/event/index/4a…
3/ Lord Greenhalgh’s opening comments are that the Bill has so far taken a year. He does not want it held up by further amendments because this is not the place the resolve the issues raised by any of the amendments.
4/ Lord Kennedy now speaking on his amendment to create a public register of fire safety risk assessments. He says that progress of remediation to date has been unacceptably slow and painful for leaseholders.
5/ Lord Kennedy wants a public register of fire safety risk assessments to be set up within defined time scales. Lord Greenhalgh has written to him today promising the government will look at this in the future.
6/ Proceedings today in House of Lords should take around an hour. Lord Kennedy says Labour will support @BishopStAlbans amendment (aka McPartland-Smith) if there is a vote today.
7/ @BishopStAlbans speaking now. Bishop says he will force a vote on his amendment today. Bishop says Grenfell the result of institutional failings on multiple levels over many years.
8/ Bishop says #FireSafetyBill will impose staggering costs on leaseholders if fire brigades force works. Bishops says government estimates of £9k per leaseholder are wrong. Costs may be as much as £50k per leaseholder. Cites @insidehousing survey of costs as being more accurate.
9/ Bishop notes that many affected by #BuildingSafetyCrisis are first time buyers. Says it is not right that people who’ve tried to do the right thing, encouraged by government, are being penalised in this way.
10/ This is a powerful intervention from the Bishop in a charged political debate. It underlines the government’s difficulties with #firesafetybill
11/ Bishop also says interim fire safety costs are a crippling burden. Calls on government to end the nightmare. Hopes passing the amendment will end leaseholders’ nightmare.
12/ Bishop says government “morally wrong” in treatment of leaseholders on this issue. Says those responsible must be made to pay, via levies over a series of years.
12/ @KathPinnock now speaking to her alternative amendment to protect leaseholders. That amendment calls on government to establish a remediation scheme that does not place costs on leaseholders.
13/ Baroness Pinnock criticises government for trying to push problem onto leaseholders. Welcomes belated government recognition that it must provide upfront funding if problem is to be solved.
13/ #FireSafetyBill @KathPinnock says government should provide up front funding recouped by levies on developers and cladding manufacturers, among others.
14/ Baroness Pinnock notes that dangerous cladding is only part of the problem. Removing the cladding is showing other internal fire safety issues.
15/ Baroness Pinnock notes these internal defects are in breach of Building Regulations.
16/ Baroness Pinnock has asked MHCLG to produce data justifying only giving grant funds to remove cladding on buildings more than 18 metres. No reply received.
17/ Baroness reiterates that it is #notjustcladding and insurance, waking watch and other costs are crippling even before remediation is taken into account.
18/ Baroness Pinnock tells story of leaseholder George, who may be bankrupt by age 28 due to £50k remediation bill. So far the Building Safety Fund has only given a 10% pre-tender support grant toward a £2 million remediation bill at his block.
19/ Royal Quay in Liverpool gets a mention, facing being evacuated by Fire Brigade. Baroness Pinnock says she will back @BishopStAlbans amendment if there is a vote, or else will push for a vote on her own amendment.
20/ Earl of Lytton now speaking. Makes constitutional point that Lords does not typically insist on amendments once rejected by Commons, as is happening with #FireSafetyBill
21/ Earl of Lytton says that a “great injustice” is falling on leaseholders. Seems as if “whole system of property law has conspired against them”
22/ Earl says amendments are unlikely to achieve their aims and will give rise to unintended consequences. #FireSafetyBill extends to many new types of property not covered by existing Fire Safety Order. Amendments should be seen in that light.
23/ Earl is a surveyor by trade. He is making point that property management is more complicated than amendments contemplate. This needs careful thought.
24/ The Earl’s point is a fair one. But why has government not produced a considered solution in the time since June 2017?
25/ Earl ponders whether more radical reforms are required, such as removal of buyer beware principle, ban on shell companies in construction and whether buildings should have to meet same standards as consumer goods.
26/ Earl calls on government to come up with a considered solution to help leaseholders.
27/ Earl calls on government to consider cheaper, risk-based solutions to both cladding remediation and interim costs, citing previous professional experience in managing such risks.
28/ Earl concludes by cautioning amendments may not work. Says he has not made his mind up on which way to vote. Says it is up to the government to solve this problem, “it is not going to go away”
29/ Lord Newby (LD) speaking now. Says he is personally affected as a leaseholder with a waking watch and remediation works required. It is shocking that many of the affected buildings have been built in the last few years.
30/ Lord Newby reiterates that developers should pay to fix “their own mess”. Cites Barratt as a particular example.
31/ Lord Newby says government’s approach to amendments is straight out of an old episode of “Yes Minister”
32/ Lord Newby says Lord Greenhalgh should take a leaf out of Jim Hacker’s book and bounce his officials into action on this issue. The fact that it’s complicated is not an excuse justifying inaction.
33/ Baroness Warwick (Lab) speaking now. Says Housing Associations are doing what they can to shield leaseholders from costs but are also caught up in the current mess.
34/ Baroness says government must fund all remedial works to all buildings. Current funding is insufficient and not enough is allocated to social housing buildings.
35/ Baroness says that social housing providers are faced with having to spend grant money on remediation instead of new social housing. Costs for the sector May reach £10 billion. This will perhaps result in 72k fewer social housing units and less spent on maintenance.
36/ Baroness Warwick asks for government to fund works upfront and impose levies on those responsible to recover that upfront funding.
37/ Bishop of London now speaking. Says that the #BuildingSafetyCrisis has imposed a heavy toll on mental health of leaseholders affected.
38/ Bishop notes that some leaseholders are being forced to pay up to 60% of their salaries on interim fire safety service charges
39/ Bishop says government’s developer levies do not go far enough. More could be raised if levies were broadened out to include cladding manufacturers and others.
40/ Bishop says that government’s role is to “do right by the people of this country”. Calls for clear and cost effective solution based on polluter pays principle
41/ Bishop of London asks government to commit to compensation for leaseholders who have already paid.
42/ Bishop asks minister to meet a delegation from Archbishop of Canterbury’s Housing Commission
43/ @Andrew_Adonis speaking now. Makes constitutional point that Lords is not given enough time to consider Commons reasons on bills like #FireSafetyBill. Suggests reforms such as joint sittings of both Houses of Parliament to resolve differences instead of “ping pong” like today
44/ Lord Adonis says House owes it to the people facing £50k bills, bankruptcy, suicide etc to consider the amendments fully and properly with adequate time.
45/ Lord Adonis says that leaseholders are being expected to bear unforeseen and extraordinary risks and that is unfair. The issue is in danger of derailing the property market. Notes government has had nearly 4 years to solve this issue but has yet to do so.
46/ Lord Adonis says he doesn’t want to see another round of “ping pong” next week. Wants government to come up with a comprehensive scheme to address the issues.
47/ What do people think of quality of debate so far? Seems radically different quality to that seen in Commons. I haven’t seen anyone repeat a press release so far. Have you?
48/ Lord Adonis comments that government can spare leaseholders the misery of litigation against likes of @Barrattplc by imposing a levy scheme. Developers have made a fortune in recent years, with profit margins as high as 20-30%. They can afford to pay.
49/ Lord Greenhalgh now responding to debate, so we are approaching the votes today.
50/ Lord Greenhalgh repeats that government intends to implement Grenfell Inquiry Phase 1 recommendations before second anniversary of report. Promises action on personal emergency evacuation plans for the disabled.
51/ Lord Greenhalgh says he hopes Lord Kennedy and will not push his amendment (public register of fire safety risk assessment) to a vote. Says it will be a security risk because it could be accessed by someone with malicious intent. Agrees residents should have access.
52/ Lord Greenhalgh dealing with @BishopStAlbans amendment now. Sticking closely to script. Says government takes issue seriously. Repeats “unprecedented investment in Building Safety” via £3.5 billion additional funding already provided.
53/ Lord Greenhalgh says government funding does not absolve building owners from funding costs, which they should be doing.
54/ Lord Greenhalgh sticks to script and saga he will not accept @BishopStAlbans amendment because it does not belong in #FireSafetyBill. Repeats that Building Safety Bill is the place to deal with that.
55/ Costs to leaseholders should be dealt with in Building Safety Bill so it is coherent with clauses 88-89 (Building Safety Charge). Says regulations under BSB will be toughened up so that Accountable Persons have to seek alternative sources of funding before billing l/holders
56/ Lord Greenhalgh attacks @BishopStAlbans amendment as not being sufficiently clear or detailed. If passed, will lead to litigation against government of freeholders try to claim costs they think fall under lease terms but for the amendments.
57/ Lord Greenhalgh also attacks @KathPinnock amendment on same basis.
58/ Lord Greenhalgh’s criticisms are unfair. The government’s own Building Safety Charge represents a similar litigation risk where it conflicts with case law and lease terms on e.g. improvements.
59/ Lord Greenhalgh says amendments should not place costs on landlords and others without consultation. Says government’s approach is more nuanced and has been consulted upon.
60/ Lord Greenhalgh says amendments are overly simplistic. Freeholders may not be able to pay remediation costs imposed on them by amendments. They may walk away. Some may go into insolvency.
61/ Lord Greenhalgh is largely repeating what government has said before. Lord Greenhalgh offers to meet with @KathPinnock to discuss individual cases she raised today during her speech. Says he is aware of Royal Quay in Liverpool and doing “what we can” to support building.
62/ @Andrew_Adonis asks if Lord Greenhalgh recognises the £50k estimated cladding remediation costs compared to government’s £9k estimate?
63/ Lord Greenhalgh responds that he does not recognise the figure, which is a composite number of many different elements.
64/ Lord Kennedy says government has made enough concessions to persuade him to withdraw his amendment on a public register of fire safety risk amendments.
65/ @BishopStAlbans has just forced a vote on his amendment. Lords voting now. Vote will last 10 minutes.
67/ And that’s it for the Lords. Bill now has to go back to the Commons. Government now in serious trouble. It will have to whip its MPs to vote against this. There is no avoiding the vote this time.
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