Thread by @meghanncuniff

Thread alert: I’m here at the First Street federal courthouse again today for Judge Carter’s hearing in the lawsuit over homelessness in Los Angeles. We’re about 7 minutes away from start time so stay tuned for tweets! 🧵 👀

Today's hearing is all about the big 110-page injunction Judge Carter issued on April 20. It's been stayed by the 9th Circuit, and the 9th wants to know how things go today. (Los Angeles County lawyers have called this an attempt by Carter to "backfill" the record.)

Here's my original @LAmag article on the injunction: lamag.com/citythinkblog/…

And here's my article on the 9th Circuit staying the injunction, with some key details about what to expect today: lamag.com/citythinkblog/…

This @LAmag article is of course outdated now, but I think it well explains the major legal issues at play in this case and how Judge Carter approaches them: lamag.com/citythinkblog/…

Aaaaaand while we're at it, here's my @LAMag profile on Carter from last November, when the anti-camping ordinances proposal with the Los Angeles City Council was big news: lamag.com/citythinkblog/…

My thread from yesterday's hearing gives a slight preview of today, with Carter promising big stuff (nothing new there!) and a long day:

https://twitter.com/meghanncuniff/status/1397597193159118848

OK Carter took the mic and is explaining that we have a number of elected officials who have committee meetings today, so he's changing the schedule to fit their schedules. LA County Board of Supervisors chair @HildaSolis is up now She's been vaccinated.

Supervisor Solis thanks Carter for elevating the issue of structural racism. Says she acknowledges this historic injustice that must be addressed. Historic systems must be addressed to solve homelessness.

Solis says she's pushing a "care first, jails last" approach and is supporting "various initiatives" including two projects in her district. The Hilda Solis Care First Village: hildalsolis.org/hilda-l-solis-…

"The project as you know was built in record time. It's unheard of, even for the county." (I think she meant especially for the county?") "The model is showing what it means to realize care first and jail last," Solis tells Carter.

"We in fact envision seeing a master planning project that will better leverage and coordinate all of our county assets," Solis said.

Solis says she's working with the Downtown Women's Center on a housing plan for Skid Row women and will be taking proposal to the Board of Supervisors soon.

Speaking of @DWCweb, I was given this when I sat down as a primer for what Amy Turk is apparently going to discuss today.

Carter says he follows the minutes of all city meetings that he can and praises Solis for the fast opening. Says he wants to give credit where credit is due. "Much of what you said today you also encapsulated at the board meeting."

Carter is citing Solis' comments at a recent board meeting "What I was impressed with was your recognition and the board's recognition of the inequities historically." Says he wants them to know he's reading.

Carter acknowledges the debate about long-term housing v. shelters: "I'll tell you, everything's on the table. What I'm looking for is a balance."

Carter says long-term housing is ideal, but he needs a balance to be able to get people off the street immediately and into safety. "how are we going to balance that?" He says Martin v. Boise addresses shelter, it doesn't say anything about housing.

So as of now it's a political decision about housing v. shelter. "I'm absolutely down on my knees..." Carter says, and is worried about the upcoming rains and the safety of everyone on the street.

"You're here because the city and county cannot reach those kinds of agreements," Carter said. "When I walk down the street it is beyond any civilized society. And I go to Afghanistan" and Syria etc, and the refugee camps are better than Skid Row.

"I see absolutely no reason why we cant start getting women off the streets" starting today. Says we're fighting for the heart and soul of the city right now. "If you and the city can't turn this around you're going to give" that to the court to make that effort.

Carter again complains that no one reads his orders (it's totally true) and says county and city are caught in same echo chamber of bickering that's plagued homeless services for years.

Carter says he'll have a lot of information to give today. "I'm really concerned that you've gotten information or not gotten information from your internal staff" that may not be correct.

Carter apologizes to Solis for cutting off the phone calls, but he did that with everyone after Los Angeles County re-entered litigation and ditched the settlement posture.

Carter tells Solis "What i'm afraid of is persons unlike you" who aren't going down there to see homelessness first hand. "Until you see it, you can't believe it." Says he doesn't think the entire LA City Council has even seen it.

Carter says he wants milestones along the way in any agreement reached. "The inertia that's occurred is absolutely devastating" and it's causing a loss of life.

Carter bounces back to the audits he expects: "I don't believe any longer that money is the issue. We've got the money." Then back to the projects Solis promoted: "In the mean time, how do you get people off the street awaiting that and not living in a cardboard box."

Carter says he's not willing to wait around any longer, especially when there's women and kids outside in the rain, and he'll be showing photos today. (Nothing new there!)

This is in Orange County, but when Carter talks about the need for emergency shelters, this is undoubtedly one guy he thinks of: latimes.com/socal/daily-pi…

Councilman Kevin DeLeon is up now. Something about he and Carter not having their midnight calls anymore. DeLeon says he feels like a "jilted lover." (Har har har.) Now he's reading a statement about the homelessness situation and history of Skid Row.

.@kdeleon says he's encouraged but cautiously optimistic "We still need to make significant changes" in the way we handle housing so we can leverage the available money. "We can't piecemeal our way through this."

"Everything has to be on the table," DeLeon says. "Including motel rooms, hotel rooms," Carter replies. DeLeon says short-term and long-term housing work together not against each other.

"We have a lot of smart folks in this room." (Yep, let's hear it for ourselves, everyone.) But again, and DeLeon always says this, we need "a North Star."

DeLeon says this isn't a legal issue, it's a political issue, and the more "the lawyers" get involved, the bigger the problem gets.

"Instead we're pouring city resources into litigation." Says a "litigation merry go round" that yields nothing. "We still own this problem." Says Carter gets to go home and have a nice glass of wine with his wife, but we live with it. (um, lol?)

Carter says depending on what the 9th Circuit does with the stay, we could all be back here like we were to begin with.

DeLeon now talking about when he was a kid and the landlord would need the rent, and he'd be embarrassed about his family's financial insecurity.

Now DeLeon is back to how we need a collective effort to fix homelessness. "Quite frankly there's not enough conversations." (Some might say it's action that's needed, not more talk.)

Carter says he and DeLeon have walked Skid Row together several times, and he asks him to describe the plight of women. As he's saying this, Hilda Solis gets up to leave, but Carter asks her to stay, saying he's got a slide he wants her to see soon, about finances.

Judge Carter: "I'm concerned that all of us including the court have taken a position of what we can't do. We are so used to a mindset of 'this just can't be done.' That scenario has to change."

Carter again displays a quote and paraphrase from state Auditor Elaine Howle about wasted money, then shows a slide labeled "Funding for Homeless Initiatives" that lists HHH funding at $1.2 billion, state funding in last three years at $13 billion etc. Measure H at $3.5 billion.

Carter displays a "good-faith letter" from February 2020 from the County of LA's auditor-controller that describes a "snap audit" of a limited number of providers. Carter says he has difficult questions about what data was retained or not, and what the board was given.

Carter says when he first got on the case, @GoSkidRowGo told him of the homeless industrial complex, but Shayla Meyers of @LegalAidLA says they're doing a good job. (I'm guessing that's a pretty loose paraphrase of Shayla.)

LA County lawyer Skip Miller says he's not an expert on this audit, but Judge Carter tells him "we'll struggle through this."
"We both went to @UCLA, right?" Carter tells Miller.

"Some of these providers are just excellent...some of them may not be supplying you any data at all," Carter says. (This is pretty dense, number-heavy stuff, lifted from the audit. Difficult to sum up in tweets but keep with me please.)

Carter on the audit: "Someone could read that as bills being handed in without dates, not being able to match up the project" and that providers are retaining the data and not the county.

This leads into Carter's current concerns about his audit orders, and how the county is responding. Data "is the very thing Michele is demanding of you that you're not observing," Carter tells Skip Miller, referring to Special Master Michele Martinez, who's to oversee the audits.

"The state does not track the funding it provides to combat homelessness, which might be the biggest problem of them all," Carter says.

"Look, forget the past. But if this was a problem then, just make certain now that this data" is coming in from our providers "so we can have milestones and accountability" instead of $6 billion flowing through with no accountability, Carter says.

Carter tells Skip Miller that "Hopefully as soon as the stay is lifted" they can start working on this re: audits. If stay is lifted Skip has 30 days to get info. "I would be working on it now."

Wrapping up all the audit finance talk, Carter says: "If all of you absorbed that, I want to compliment you." Skip asks if all the slides can be part of official court records, and Carter says yes and there's more where that came from.

Carter tells Skip to call Michele, says they've been calling and not getting the response they're looking for. "We want to work with you."

DeLeon has the mic again: "Past performance with taxpayer dollars informs future outcomes. And quite frankly I am scared to death" that Gov. Newsom's minimum proposal of $12 billion will be wasted.

DeLeon says the homeless industrial complex makes the DMV "look like a well-oiled machine." People chuckle, but isn't that 100 percent true?

Carter again on past audits: "When you read this documents, I'm really concerned about the data you got and information you didn't get."

Carter calls on LA Auditor Ron Galperin, but he's not here. So Carter directs Galperin's chief of staff to track him down.

While we're waiting on that, Carter is warning us all not to take photos of what he's about to display. Shayla Meyers of @LegalAidLA says her HIPAA privacy concern is a provider showing who's getting services. But Carter says he's going to show them over her objection.

Carter shows Skid Row photos. "You may have grown used to it, but I haven't grown used to it." Pics of tents near Downtown Women's Center, says he knows they're doing a great job there, though he's had disagreements with them. (The Great Hotel Bed Rain Storm Dispute of '21)

"We can't even get started with women on Skid Row?" Carter says of one woman, "I call her grandma; she's the sweetest little lady. Spanish speaking."

Carter on housing Skid Row women: "If they want to return to the street, that's their choice. But for God's sake let's break this cycle."

Carter: How does city and county allow this to go on with no end in sight? "This has to turn now or it's never going to turn." (This is all stuff we've heard many, many times before at these hearings.)

Ah, the dead rat photo. I've seen this one before. Just a photo of a dead rat with its guts spilled on the concrete. Poor little guy.

"So maybe some of you lawyers should go down there and take a look around?" Carter says. (The dead rat is symbolic of much more than just rodent mortality.)

Now Carter is moving on to "Skid Row Fire and ADA Violations." Says this stuff is getting a lot of attention on the west side of Los Angeles (aka Venice), but it's happening all over the city.

Skip is asking about having ex parte communications with Judge Birotte regarding settlement. Carter says he welcomes that, and he thinks it's how we can reach a bigger agreement. But haven't we tried that before?

Carter goes through options with 9th: "The Circuit upholds me and I move forward." Or, the stay stays and his order is overturned. Then the case goes to trial, w/ Carter presiding. (Keep in mind a real trial is extremely unlikely. It's all about settlement leverage and posture.)

"I don't see it getting resolved legally," Skip says of the homelessness crisis. "The real role of the court is to try to decide the case between us." Says the county is "100 percent right on the merits" and plaintiffs have no proper claims against the county.

"That's our position. Don't mistake it for the county not wanting to resolve this issue," Miller tells Carter. "Can we do more? Every day we try."

Carter asks City of LA reps if they want to negotiate a settlement like Skip and LA County do. Says he and Judge Birotte are available, "but we're not going to do that unless there's some enthusiasm involved."

Scott Marcus, senior assistant city attorney, says the city is absolutely onboard. Skip warns he thinks homelessness is at least in part an intractable problem. "The real issue is homelessness, not winning in court."

Speaking for plaintiff LA Alliance, lawyer Matthew Umhofer says: "This is a new and welcome overture form the county, and we are at the ready and have been for the last year" to engage in meaningful settlement discussions.

Carter is showing a clip from @CBSLA about trailers from the state sitting unused instead of being used to house unhoused people. It's this story right here, from @CBSLAdavid: losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/05/03/gol…

Carter says Miller and the county "went dark for a number of months" and appeared totally unwilling to negotiate.

Miller says he didn't go dark, then he goes into his issues with the legal claims in the lawsuit. "We don't need a lawsuit to tell us to deliver services. We're going to do it whether there's a lawsuit or not."

Miller says it's not a question of going dark, it's what do you want from us? Says lawsuit was about county concentrating services on Skid Row, but of course they're doing that, that's where services are needed.

Miller waxing nostalgic, says he isn't new to the case and remembers the first pandemic-era hearing at the Alexandria Hotel. (I remember that, too!)

Michele Martinez asks Miller about beds being empty because they don't have services attached. Can county move forward with the city to provide those services? "I don't think that's a big ask of the city." Miller says yes of course.

Carter names me (oh hey what?) and @latimes and says we've put settlement details out on blogs. Not quite sure what he's referring to, but it's nice he's paying attention.

Carter asks if he's willing to work this weekend, and Miller replies, "All I do is work." (I'm super dubious of that statement, as anyone who's worked a minimum-wage fast food job should be when white-collared professionals talk about "work.")

"When would these settlement negotiations begin?" Carter asks. Miller says he just heard from city attorney Scott Marcus that city and county have arranged a meeting for first week in June. "No, that's not serious," Carter says.

"Alright, we're going to go back to structural racism..." Carter just now. Back to the topic of the day! Amy Turk of Downtown Women's Center (@DWCweb) is speaking now.

Turk tells Carter the heart of what they at @DWCweb do is listen. They listen to women on Skid Row, their situation and perspectives. "This is how we have become a social service provider that women can trust."

Turk references Carter's powerful injunction and his detailed description of how systemic racism built Skid Row. We're being interrupted by homeless advocate attorney Carol Sobel getting a call, but everyone agrees Carol is cool so it's OK. (Ok maybe that's just my take.)

OK Turk is back to talking about the efforts of the Downtown Women's Center. She says they're expanding mobile outreach, and they're looking for 200 landlords who can help house women. Finding willing landlords is difficult, however.

Carter says he's "really concerned about the rain." "You have to see it to believe it, if you're not moved by it you literally just lost your soul." Says he's not backing away from his Skid Row order, and asks Turk if she can get Skid Row women housed in 180 days.

Turk says she needs help finding landlords. And she wants more political support within city to raise awareness about incentives that exist for landlords.

This gets into something I've been thinking a lot about lately - isn't the true cause of homelessness a real estate issue? Yes, mental health and substance abuse are issues. But go to a Mission Viejo suburb and tell me there aren't pill-popping mental health cases everywhere.

Up now: The Skid Row Housing Trust. This letter is currently displayed on the overhead: drive.google.com/file/d/1Pm9jiQ…

Next up: @GoSkidRowGo. But the court clerk just said we need a break, so we're on a 15-minute break.

We're back and we're hearing from a Union Rescue Mission representative. (Not Andy Bales.) Says they 100 percent support settlement efforts and has a proposal.

"The litigation is a terrific opportunity where the city and county could set goals, establish responsibilities for one another and then have a mechanism where there's impediments to progress." Proposal is 1:1 ratio for short-term and long-term housing.

Sigh. Another reference to the "freeway order" as if it's an actual order and not an agreement between the city and the county. Says they want most vulnerable prioritized, which is of course a dig at the freeway prioritization.

Not to harp on this freeway order, but it really is astounding how much misinformation is out there about the freeway agreement v. an order. The flat-out refusal to acknowledge and correct this misinformation is pretty remarkable. (But tell me more about name misspellings. 😇)

Breaking: The rep from the Union Rescue Mission does not support anyone being prosecuted for being poor. So we've got that going for us today.

Oh here's a good one: This is a unique and historic opportunity. A real "hey Martha" line if we've ever had one. "Hey Martha! You gotta come in here and read this! Someone thinks the LA homeless lawsuit is a unique and historic opportunity! Wow!" 😊

Sorry, pardon the snark. Carter is asking Union Gospel Mission to file his proposal with the court. City and county have already received it, but Carter wants an official court record.

Carter: "Unless it happens now, I'm just afraid we're going to be reading about it in the papers 10 years from now." Says "death spiral rate" means no way will he ever become complicit. He's not wiling to buy into the party's present positions with this amount of death occurring.

.@GoSkidRowGo General Jeff Page is up now. He's wearing his standard "SKID ROW POPULATION TOO MANY" t-shirt. "Heavy is my heart," Jeff says, and references the anniversary of George Floyd's murder.

Jeff takes issue with previous statements that we should be fine with people leaving Skid Row. He wants there to be more done to make it so people don't want or have to leave Skid Row because it's their home.

Jeff calls out the lack of discussion from city and county about Carter's systemic racism findings. "As if the insulting of Black people for generations doesn't matter, or it's just convenient to just not speak on it."

Jeff showing remarkable insight into the court process as he compliments Judge Carter for the insight he showed in the 110-page injunction. "Props to his law clerks, too."

.@GoSkidRowGo General Jeff read aloud the Skid Row Advisory Council's letter, which you can read here on Google Drive: drive.google.com/file/d/1WA-N-o…

Jeff says the letter was addressed to all 15 Los Angeles City Council members, @MayorOfLA etc, but they haven't heard from anyone. They did hear from @HildaSolis with LA County, however.

Jeff takes issue with city and county wanting to negotiate a settlement amid racism findings and such a "smug arrogance about all these services" that are actually part of the Skid Row containment zone.

General Jeff says the Skid Row Advisory Council believes a public apology is in order, with a public acknowledgement of the decades of systemic racism described in Judge Carter's injunction.

Before we start talking about tiny homes etc, somebody owes Black people an apology, Jeff says. "We understand that the existence of one homeless person creates jobs."

.@GoSkidRowGo: "It's about doing the bare minimum just to keep the jobs going, yet we're dying on the streets." Says the status quo can now be called the racism quo.

Next up is Pastor Cue (@CreatingJustice) of the Church Without Walls on Skid Row. Says if you want to look at systemic racism, just look around the courtroom.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that institutional racism exits," @CreatingJustice says. "Look at how many people are getting pushed out of housing each and every day."

"The fact that there's no robust solution in place to house our people with respect and dignity and equity," Pastor Cue says. Tiny homes don't address "the root problem." Some just want homeless out of sight as soon as possible.

"I didn't come to preach today, but I will," Cue says as he gets a little more rousing. A brief clap in the back. "The system has given us the exact outcome" it was designed to give. The system is not broken.

Cue @creatingjustice: "We keep doing the same thing with law enforcement we're doing with homelessness. We respond to the system. We respond to the inadequate system. We respond to the system that is flawed by racism, with more racism."

Cue says we respond to racism, "but we're not wiling to go upstream and go who's putting Moses in the water" and stop Pharaoh from putting Moses in. "We don't have a housing shortage. We have an institutional racism problem."

Carter references an @latimes article about PPP loans. This article here: latimes.com/california/sto…

Carter says he'd like to discuss the PPP racism issue with Mark Ridley-Thomas or Mayor Garcetti or anyone else who chose to be here today (neither Garcetti nor Ridley-Thomas are here). "It's compelling that it's happening right now."

Next up is @LAController Ron Galperin. Carter referenced a 2019 audit titled "the high cost of homeless housing: review of proposition HHH" Available here: lacontroller.org/audits-and-rep…

Carter: "Why aren't we just buying instead of developing?"

Carter: "How do we lower the overhead costs?" of housing development. Galperin: Gather relevant stakeholders. Has court talked to developers who are doing this project? They have a laundry list of factors that hinder their efficiency.

Now Carter is displaying a 2020 report: "Meeting the Moment: An Action Plan to Advance Proposition HHH" lacontroller.org/audits-and-rep…

Carter says he needs to find out the problems exposed in these two audits extend beyond "just these two incidents." He stresses that he doesn't want to hinder current projects, which is why he stayed his order...

But could he eventually be in a position where he pushes a receivership? Carter calls the city's response to this land audit order "embarrassing."

Galperin says he's "long believed" that there are city properties that can be used for some kind of housing. He said the city is seeking info from various city agencies, brokerage firms etc. "Putting them all together is no small task."

"What I've also found is there are many cooks who have been in this kitchen at various times." Another Hey Martha line right there!

"This is like the Rocky Horror Picture Show," Carter says. (No context needed.)

Carter says he's wondering how far outside the system he needs to go to undertake an audit. He says he feels he doesn't need to bypass Galperin's office.

Regarding buying properties, Galperin says the housing market in Los Angeles is quite hot right now, so creating new units is important. But in the interim, we need to find maybe albeit imperfect solutions to save lives.

"What I saw with tiny homes was almost a joke," Carter says, referencing how the price of them totally ballooned because of infrastructure costs etc.

Speaking of tiny homes, which ones are flammable and which ones aren't? My new story for @invisiblepeople: invisiblepeople.tv/are-pallet-she…

Looks like we're close to wrapping up for the day. Carter says he's done with questions. Shayla Myers of @LegalAidLA says if this case continues down this path, the structural racism detailed in the injunction won't be properly addressed.

Shayla says we have to be clear about what the impacts of Carter's injunction and all today's proposals will be on the people who actually live on Skid Row. Says root of this case is business people upset about Skid Row.

"This case and the plaintiffs take issue with the impact of homelessness by discussing the impact on landlord and property owners," Myers said. It doesn't address how structural racism affects people on Skid Row.

"When we take disparagingly about a containment process" Myers says it was aimed at preserving affordable housing in Skid Row. "Which is why today the largest stock of affordable housing that exits in Los Angeles exists in Skid Row."

Shayla notes that nine days after Carter's injunction, one of the LA Alliance plaintiffs announced a massive development project in Skid Row. "This case is about gentrification. It has always been about gentrification."

"This case is not about structural racism, but it does not mean that a settlement agreement that looks deeply" at these issues couldn't start to address them. "But the reality is if we continue down this path we will be" supporting the racist policies that brought us here.

Attorney Carol Sobel says she agrees with Shayla Myers that it will continue racism, but it also "will use up the money" that's available probably once in our lifetime to address this. "Almost no one moves from shelter to housing in this city because there is no housing."

"We don't have private property owners here anymore; we have corporate owners. We cannot find landlords who will take section 8 housing," Sobel said. "That is really critical in a city where there is a 10-year waiting list for subsidized housing."

Next up is Pete White of @LACANetwork. He says one problem with discussions about systemic racism "is we all believe we're talking about the same thing." "It's been a feature of the social economic and political systems in which we exist."

He says when county and city pushing appeal says well it's not in the (original lawsuit) pleadings, they're simply wrong. Systemic racism IS in the pleadings. It's all over the pleadings.

White says the assertion that some people don't want help "is as racist as the welfare queen tropes" and are dangled in front of public to destroy the already minimal safety nets.

"We need to talk about what repair looks like, and it's not tent villages. Because w're worth more than that. It's not pallet sheds because we're worth more than that," White says.

LA Alliance attorney Liz Mitchell responding to Shayla Myers' comments about a plaintiff being a Skid Row developer. Says LA Alliance "is a very broad spectrum of individuals." "Somehow being a property owner, we're sort of portrayed as these greedy individuals."

Mitchell doesn't address the developer directly, but she says all people have been affected by homelessness, and the make up of the plaintiff LA Alliance reflects that.

Carter tells attorneys they're only here because they can't reach an agreement. He warns them that he's not going to let up. "Regardless of what the 9th Circuit does, it's coming back to my court eventually."

.@Michele714 says she's been volunteering for 18 months not because she likes hanging out with Judge Carter and Birotte but because this is a crucially important issue. She says if city and county won't commit to addressing racism, they're not going to address the real problem.

She made kind of an odd reference to how maybe she won't be the special master on this case anymore, but she wants everyone to know how crucially important this issue is, and that now is the time to address it and they have the opportunity and must seize it.

And now the court is in recess. That's it for the day. I'll share some analysis on here later, and look for my @LAmag coverage.

The current scene outside the courthouse.