1/T
This thread will look at some statements in @zeynep's NYT article on lab leak conspiracism.
Some preliminary notes first.
nytimes.com/2021/06/25/opi…
[archive.is/hFqmR]
This thread will look at some statements in @zeynep's NYT article on lab leak conspiracism.
Some preliminary notes first.
https://twitter.com/zhihuachen/status/1409162687762911236
https://twitter.com/celinegounder/status/1409089642633351168
https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1408921144699260929
https://twitter.com/snpsandsnRNPs/status/1408806534554005504
nytimes.com/2021/06/25/opi…
[archive.is/hFqmR]
2/T
I + others argued with lab conspiracists for over a year. We saw their arguments + addressed them in detail; that's how we know they're nonsense.
I'll thus often link to threads that explain points in detail, so I don't have to rehash it all here.
I + others argued with lab conspiracists for over a year. We saw their arguments + addressed them in detail; that's how we know they're nonsense.
I'll thus often link to threads that explain points in detail, so I don't have to rehash it all here.
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1403178626028388353
3/T
You often need serology (i.e. antibody) studies to tell who's been infected, since many infections are missed otherwise.
Those studies show more prior infections with SARS-like viruses.
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
You often need serology (i.e. antibody) studies to tell who's been infected, since many infections are missed otherwise.
Those studies show more prior infections with SARS-like viruses.
https://twitter.com/robertson_lab/status/1408761579303223299
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1408757015741075467
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
4/T
Zoonotic transfer outside of a lab happens so often it's taken for granted. You can't list them all transfers because they're so numerous, unlike lab leaks.
It's more the rule rather than the exception, given the ease of infection outside of a lab.
tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.10…
Zoonotic transfer outside of a lab happens so often it's taken for granted. You can't list them all transfers because they're so numerous, unlike lab leaks.
It's more the rule rather than the exception, given the ease of infection outside of a lab.
tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.10…
5/T
Given that, one needs *evidence* to claim a lab leak instead of zoonotic transfer, not just paranoid suspicion
21:33 to 24:06 :
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…
npr.org/sections/goats…
Given that, one needs *evidence* to claim a lab leak instead of zoonotic transfer, not just paranoid suspicion
21:33 to 24:06 :
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1399224245935390721
npr.org/sections/goats…
6/T
There are labs across China studying SARS coronaviruses, infecting organisms or cells with them, etc.
Conspiracy theorists would have made stuff up about those labs as well, if an outbreak occurred in the same city as them.
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
There are labs across China studying SARS coronaviruses, infecting organisms or cells with them, etc.
Conspiracy theorists would have made stuff up about those labs as well, if an outbreak occurred in the same city as them.
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1404504587030118406
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
7/T
The 'proximity to a lab' argument is weak anyway. For instance, it would just as easily led to the (wrong) conclusions that SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV came from labs. And it uses the poor reasoning about probability typical among conspiracist theorists.
The 'proximity to a lab' argument is weak anyway. For instance, it would just as easily led to the (wrong) conclusions that SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV came from labs. And it uses the poor reasoning about probability typical among conspiracist theorists.
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1277008447897296897
8/T
As an immunologist, I can say that the whole 'RaTG13 / miners' saga helped convince me that many, if not most, SARS-CoV-2 lab conspiracists are incompetent and/or dishonest.
That includes @TheSeeker268 + others at DRASTIC.
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
As an immunologist, I can say that the whole 'RaTG13 / miners' saga helped convince me that many, if not most, SARS-CoV-2 lab conspiracists are incompetent and/or dishonest.
That includes @TheSeeker268 + others at DRASTIC.
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1277853942353969153
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
9/T
For example, it's unlikely SARS-CoV-2 came from RaTG13, given the evolutionary distance between them. They're more like distant cousins (ex: humans vs. chimpanzees). So bringing it up is a red herring
europeanreview.org/wp/wp-content/…
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.10…
For example, it's unlikely SARS-CoV-2 came from RaTG13, given the evolutionary distance between them. They're more like distant cousins (ex: humans vs. chimpanzees). So bringing it up is a red herring
https://twitter.com/viralphenomics/status/1267260166682152961
europeanreview.org/wp/wp-content/…
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.10…
10/T
Calling the DRASTIC team "internet sleuths" is more respect than they merit. They're a bunch of paranoid conspiracists who can't get basic biology right.
Also, suspicious activity happens in the absence of a lab leak.
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
Calling the DRASTIC team "internet sleuths" is more respect than they merit. They're a bunch of paranoid conspiracists who can't get basic biology right.
Also, suspicious activity happens in the absence of a lab leak.
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1408336640557322243
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
11/T
And again, the level of protection researchers have when working with viruses is more than the non-existent levels of protection that everyday people have when exposed to viruses.
21:33 to 24:06 :
thebulletin.org/2020/05/let-ev…
And again, the level of protection researchers have when working with viruses is more than the non-existent levels of protection that everyday people have when exposed to viruses.
21:33 to 24:06 :
thebulletin.org/2020/05/let-ev…
12/T
@zeynep peddles disinformation from Rupert Murdoch's media empire, via Sky News. That's the level of fact-checking we're dealing from her here.
She owes people an apology.
[with: ]
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
@zeynep peddles disinformation from Rupert Murdoch's media empire, via Sky News. That's the level of fact-checking we're dealing from her here.
She owes people an apology.
https://twitter.com/nailbomb3/status/1404532494955737089
[with: ]
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
13/T
The video she said "reportedly showed live bats in the [WIV]" actually showed an Australian lab where Dr. Shi formerly worked.
@nailbomb3 (an actual "internet sleuth") figured that out, while DRASTIC members credulously fell for the disinformation
The video she said "reportedly showed live bats in the [WIV]" actually showed an Australian lab where Dr. Shi formerly worked.
@nailbomb3 (an actual "internet sleuth") figured that out, while DRASTIC members credulously fell for the disinformation
14/T
To cite @snpsandsnRNPs again:
@zeynep is "a sociologist with no biology training."
For those of us with experience with biology training, SARS-CoV-2 does not look like intelligently engineered by humans. It looks cobbled together by nature.
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
To cite @snpsandsnRNPs again:
@zeynep is "a sociologist with no biology training."
For those of us with experience with biology training, SARS-CoV-2 does not look like intelligently engineered by humans. It looks cobbled together by nature.
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
15/T
This is 1 reason why many say dealing with lab conspiracists is like dealing with creationists / Intelligent Design proponents:
Attributing to intelligence what actually is unguided evolution.
This is 1 reason why many say dealing with lab conspiracists is like dealing with creationists / Intelligent Design proponents:
Attributing to intelligence what actually is unguided evolution.
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1397017087726473217
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1397017828000153602
16/T
SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV-1, MERS-CoV, etc. are BSL3 pathogens, which means some forms of work on them can be done under BSL2 conditions.
That's been known for over a year. If that's news to some people, that's their problem. 🤷♂️
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
SARS-CoV-2, SARS-CoV-1, MERS-CoV, etc. are BSL3 pathogens, which means some forms of work on them can be done under BSL2 conditions.
That's been known for over a year. If that's news to some people, that's their problem. 🤷♂️
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1277010577240580097
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
17/T
Then @zeynep peddled misinformation and/or disinformation from denialists + crackpots. Worse, it's in immunology, my field of expertise.
Could she not have run this by anyone with actual expertise on serology? 😑
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
Then @zeynep peddled misinformation and/or disinformation from denialists + crackpots. Worse, it's in immunology, my field of expertise.
Could she not have run this by anyone with actual expertise on serology? 😑
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1409158085038559237
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
18/T
The first discovered cases of SARS-CoV-1 were not near the likely site of original zoonotic transfer. Same for HIV. And ebolavirus. And...
But when that happens with SARS-CoV-2, all of a sudden non-experts become suspicious
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
The first discovered cases of SARS-CoV-1 were not near the likely site of original zoonotic transfer. Same for HIV. And ebolavirus. And...
But when that happens with SARS-CoV-2, all of a sudden non-experts become suspicious
https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1408753112412733445
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
19/T
What surprised to an uninformed non-expert can be mundane to an informed expert.
Hence why it's so important for non-experts listen to expert virologists, geneticists, etc. who actually have experience dealing with past pathogen outbreaks.
What surprised to an uninformed non-expert can be mundane to an informed expert.
Hence why it's so important for non-experts listen to expert virologists, geneticists, etc. who actually have experience dealing with past pathogen outbreaks.
20/T
You know who was already canvassing the likelihood that the first SARS-CoV-2 zoonotic transfer occurred early?:
Kristian Anderson et al. in early 2020
nature.com/articles/s4159…
Congratulations to some people for finally catching up.
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
You know who was already canvassing the likelihood that the first SARS-CoV-2 zoonotic transfer occurred early?:
Kristian Anderson et al. in early 2020
nature.com/articles/s4159…
Congratulations to some people for finally catching up.
archive.is/hFqmR#selectio…
21/T
So overall, @zeynep's article is not good, but it's not as bad as some of the ludicrous nonsense from DRASTIC, Nicholas Wade, Steven Quay, etc.
It contains clear misinformation / disinformation, along with some good points. I wouldn't recommend it to non-experts, though.
So overall, @zeynep's article is not good, but it's not as bad as some of the ludicrous nonsense from DRASTIC, Nicholas Wade, Steven Quay, etc.
It contains clear misinformation / disinformation, along with some good points. I wouldn't recommend it to non-experts, though.
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