The #EnvironmentBill is back in @UKHouseofLords for the next round of debates.

Some hot topics today, including the independence of the Office for Environmental Protection & how to put the environment at the heart of policy making.

Tune in till 10pm👇

parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/dd…
The first debate kicks off with @GreenJennyJones talking about the "lack of bite" in the #EnvironmentBill

She criticises the "weaselly squirming" wording on environmental principles.

A stronger framework is needed to put the environment at the heart of the government's policy.
Now @kateparminter highlights further flaws in the #EnvironmentBill on environmental principles:

📒 the absence of public bodies
⚖️ the excessive use of proportionality
🪖 the blanket exemption of defence and spending/taxation policy
.@kateparminter says that the sweeping exemption for @DefenceHQ from the #EnvironmentBill is not the "focused disapplication" it claims.

The govt response to #Dasgupta recognises the need for joined up policy making & is at odds with the bill.

She urges for this to be revisited
.@AnneCMcIntosh flags the important issue of making sure that the environmental principles are applied across the UK.

She also questions the #EnvironmentBill wording on environmental principles - a clearer (than "due regard") duty to ensure compliance is needed.
.@Dafydd_Wigley speaks on amendments 79 & 81 which are intended to "tease out" the government's intention on how UK ministers will have to take account of environmental principles on reserved matters.

#EnvironmentBill
Lord Hope of Craighead touches on a sensitive subject: who sets the environmental policy framework for UK ministers of the crown when acting on reserved matters in Scotland?

Close co-operation across the UK will be important.

#EnvironmentBill

committees.parliament.uk/publications/6…
.@RosieBoycott also highlights the perversity of excluding @hmtreasury from the #EnvironmentBill when it is taking forward the #Dasgupta review and meant to be guiding departmental policy making through its Green Book. She says: "We have to have consistency".
.@natalieben also calls for the loopholes on defence and spending in the #EnvironmentBill to be closed.

Every year @DefenceHQ runs the Sanctuary Awards to highlight good environmental practice on the defence estate in the UK.

This intent must be mirrored in the legislation.
The Duke of Wellington highlights the large number of public bodies which make policy.

He believes it is "logical and indeed necessary" to ensure that they must have regard to the statement of environmental principles.

#EnvironmentBill
.@youngb48 supports the inclusion of public authorities within the duty on environmental principles and wants the "unacceptable exceptions" to be swept away.

@hmtreasury @DefenceHQ should be brought in scope of the #EnvironmentBill
Baroness Neville-Rolfe and Viscount Trenchard question the value of the precautionary principle.

This important cornerstone of law has long been a target for dismantlers of environmental protections.

It must remain firmly in the #EnvironmentBill

greeneruk.org/sites/default/…
Baroness Quin adds her support for the amendments in this group on environmental principles and stresses the importance of co-operation on environmental issues across the UK and for this to respect devolution settlements.
X-bencher Lord Krebs argues that the purpose of the #EnvironmentBill must be to strengthen environmental protections & supports the amendments that would achieve this.

He cites this court judgment which highlights the value of the precautionary principle

linkedin.com/pulse/280521-h…
Lord Berkeley is also concerned about the wide exemptions in the #EnvironmentBill

This is emerging as a key theme of this important debate on environmental principles.
Baroness Bakewell of HM rounds up this first debate on environmental principles for @LibDemLords - she says "it is a nonsense to be allowing @hmtreasury and @DefenceHQ to be excused the need to take responsibility for what happens to the planet"

Hear hear!

#EnvironmentBill
.@SueHayman1 winds up for @LabourLordsUK

She highlights the inadequacy of the approach in the #EnvironmentBill and the value that the principles must play in informing and guiding policy.

No area of government should be exempted from its environmental responsibilities.
The minister says the MoD exemptions do not apply to SSSIs, yet the #EnvironmentBill says all policy relating to defence & the armed forces is excluded

The justification of the spending exclusions is similarly detached from the definition in the bill

Unfinished business for now
Good to hear the minister liken the government's aim for the duty on environmental principles to that on public sector equality - for it to have a similarly wide ranging and durable impact, some of the Peers' amendments will need accepting in some form though.

#EnvironmentBill
The minister is now speaking at pace to race through responses to the many issues that Peers have raised in this important #EnvironmentBill debate on environmental principles.

With 106 pages of amendments still to get through, there's certainly no time to hang around.
.@GreenJennyJones closes the debate as her amendment was the lead one in this important group.

Her response, as ever, is inimitable, direct and humorous. She urges the govt to listen to the concerns raised by her/fellow Peers.

Can't see this not coming back at Report stage!
Moving to the next debate now on a question from Lord Hope of Craighead on the ability in the #EnvironmentBill for ministers to make statements about the impact of new laws on the environment.

He highlights the gap between what the bill says & how it's described in the Ex Notes.
Lord Hope's forensic interrogation of this part of the #EnvironmentBill is a good example of the value that detailed @UKHouseofLords scrutiny adds to our law making process

Oh that we had more time. There are many parts of the bill that would benefit from such incisive questions
.@WhitchurchGirl shares Lord Hope's concerns & reinforces the need to guard against regression by stealth.

The minister says this #EnvironmentBill provision will ensure the environment will get the close attention it needs in policy making.

Let's hope he is right.
Front row seats for the next debate on the independence of the Office for Environmental Protection 👀

Lord Cameron of Dillington kicks it off. We have great expectations for the OEP & yet it seems like it will be "a mere tool of the very body it should be overseeing" (ie Defra)
Lord Cameron argues that a more independent model is needed - Defra should not control the OEP, including its funding.

"The buck should stop with the secretary of state and he should not be controlling the buck".

He calls for the OEP to be more like the @NAOorguk
Lord Cameron's speech is littered with brilliant phrases to highlight why the OEP independence matters.

The future of our environment depends on it: "We can't afford to let Defra marks its own homework".

As a former chair of an arm's length body his remarks are esp noteworthy.
Now @RosieBoycott firmly adds her support to Lord Cameron's entreaty on OEP independence.

She says the current approach in the #EnvironmentBill is "either cowardly or an agenda that wants to conceal".

The bill must be future proofed and be able to stand the test of time.
.@AnneCMcIntosh also champions the importance of OEP independence. She supports the amendment from @WhitchurchGirl which would ensure that OEP board appointments must be made with the consent of the environment select committees.

#EnvironmentBill
To clarify the purpose of amendment 85 - it's to provide parliamentary oversight of the appointment of the Chair and board members of the OEP, and mirrors the process that already exists for @OBR_UK

It goes beyond pre-appt hearings, which, while welcome, have limited impact.
See here for a helpful clarification on independence on board appointments from @instituteforgov @AnneCMcIntosh

#EnvironmentBill

Lord Krebs says the government promised us a strong and independent OEP & "many of us feel we have been short changed".

He reminds the House that 25-0 Peers spoke in favour of a more independent OEP at 2nd reading.

Board member appointments must be transparent

#EnvironmentBill
Lord Hope commends the principle of the amendments in this group. He strongly supports the principle of independence for the OEP.

Lord Cormack says the success of the #EnvironmentBill will depend on an independent & courageous OEP.

"We cannot be fobbed off" & change is needed.
Lord Framlingham adds his support for the OEP to be independent from "all strands of government". This "core part" of the #EnvironmentBill must be strengthened.

The Earl of Caithness says that Defra remaining judge and jury on environmental oversight is "a route for disaster".
A second former Defra minister Lord Whitty adds his support for a more independent OEP.

This, along with contributions from former chairs & board members of public bodies, is telling.

He sums up the overwhelming view of this House: "this will not do".

#EnvironmentBill
Now @JeffRookerj is the third former Defra minister to argue for the #EnvironmentBill to strengthen the independence of the OEP to guard against government interference.

Not sure of the collective noun for former Defra ministers but their contribution is particularly striking.
Through this #EnvironmentBill thread we try and provide a running commentary on the debate.

But do read the Hansard. There've been many brilliant speeches & support for a more independent OEP from all benches.

Read our briefing on this important issue👇

greeneruk.org/sites/default/…
.@oatesjonny raises concerns about the government's commitment to making the OEP independent as evidenced by this comment during the public bill committee:

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2020-1…
.@WhitchurchGirl says amendment 85 is simple but important. It would ensure the appointment of the Chair & board members receive the consent of the environment select committees.

This is good governance. The #EnvironmentBill must be future proofed through a more independent OEP.
In his response, the minister seems to be dodging the core concerns of Peers on independence and answering a different question.

He suggests there is plenty of room for "legitimate debate" on measures to improve the OEP. Peers are asking for more than debate...

#EnvironmentBill
On amendment 85, the minister mixes up pre-appointment hearings with what Peers are asking for - a formal role for Parliament in the appointment itself.

Pre-appt hearings, while welcome, are not a panacea for independence.

This model exists for @OBR_UK - why not for the OEP?
On funding, the minister refers to the govt commitment outside the #EnvironmentBill for a multi year funding framework.

The commitment used to be for "an indicative multi-annual 5-year budget" - when did the commitment to five years drop away?

gov.uk/government/pub…
Lord Cameron referred to the support from all sides of the House for the principle of stronger independence (actual and perceived) of the OEP.

We have examined the #EnvironmentBill and "we have found it wanting"

Great cricket analogy to finish this first debate on independence!
.@AnneCMcIntosh starts off the next debate on independence for the OEP by quizzing the detailed provisions in the #EnvironmentBill on board members.

She sensibly suggests that the Chair must be consulted before any board members are dismissed by the Secretary of State.
.@SueHayman1 welcomes the intention of these amendments to tighten the appointments process for OEP board members.

She makes a good point that this must be consistent with the code of conduct for board members.

Over to the minister for some clarity.

#EnvironmentBill
The ministers suggests these points are perhaps too detailed for the #EnvironmentBill

Now on to the next debate on OEP funding. Very important given the budget assurances are made outside the bill and therefore liable to being changed by future governments.
.@AnneCMcIntosh says a five year budget will help provide long term £ security.

Very important issue especially as govt commitment to a five year budget appear to have waned since it was first made in response to the pre-legislative scrutiny reports by @CommonsEFRA @CommonsEAC
.@JeffRookerj says the key issue is for the OEP's budget to be laid before Parliament AND published.

This will increase accountability and transparency.

#EnvironmentBill
Lord Krebs seeks "absolute assurance" that the OEP won't suffer the same fate of long term decline in funding to @NaturalEngland which left it vulnerable to being incapable of delivering its statutory responsibilities. OEP funding must be protected.

#EnvironmentBill
Lord Cameron adds his support to greater long term security of funding for the OEP.

@MRitchieSD calls for more concrete assurances on long term funding of the OEP.

#EnvironmentBill
.@kateparminter supports the absolute need for a clear statement on the financial independence for the OEP.

OEP budgets must be published as this will help Parliamentarians perform oversight on important ministerial commitments on funding.

#EnvironmentBill
.@LordWajidKhan reiterates the importance of multi annual budgets for public bodies.

The OEP will need to be properly resourced to be forward thinking & effective.

It must have the means & ability to do its job & to weather the storms of future spending cuts.

#EnvironmentBill
The ministers agrees it is important the OEP has funding certainty and suggests the #EnvironmentBill is adequate, ignoring requests to clarify that OEP funding will be for five years. The OEP has received £8m for this first year of operation but will this be enough?
Lord Krebs now moves the debate on to the next big issue - the appropriateness of Clause 24, which gives the Secretary of State a power to "advise" the OEP on how to hold ministers to account, threatening its independence.

#EnvironmentBill
He makes an extremely powerful case for why this power is inappropriate in absolute & relative terms, compared with other bodies.

Lord Krebs just pipped @AnneCMcIntosh to the post on this stand part debate on Clause 24

She adds her concern on this inappropriate "guidance" power
.@AnneCMcIntosh endorses @MRitchieSD amendments to add accountability on how the OEP will operate in Northern Ireland

She also emphasises the need for cast iron assurances on independence, incl through a new commitment that there is no ministerial power of direction over the OEP
.@MRitchieSD now tells the House that the OEP's extension to Northern Ireland is very welcome & the independence of the OEP in NI is of vital importance.

The DAERA "guidance" power is inappropriate in a NI context and she calls for @NIAAgriEnvRA oversight on the NI board member.
Baroness Neville-Rolfe suggests that the "independent minded nature" of the OEP's Chair Designate should be sufficient to protect independence.

We admire Dame Glenys's commitment to independence but that alone is not the future proofed legislation that Peers are calling for.
@kateparminter feels very strongly that the "guidance" power will compromise the actual and perceived independence of the OEP.

The OEP must be free and able to set its own enforcement policy.

#EnvironmentBill
.@JeffRookerj supports the concerns raised by @MRitchieSD on the need for the OEP to be properly independent in Northern Ireland.

As a former NI minister his experience and insight on this important matter is invaluable.

#EnvironmentBill
.@JeffRookerj has been outstanding in this #EnvironmentBill debate, reminding the House of previous ministerial commitments on OEP independence.

"If it's not clear in the legislation to start with we're building up trouble".
.@bricksilk explains to the House why the Clause 24 "guidance" power gives rise to a conflict of interest in relation to the OEP's enforcement function.

Such a clause would signal regulatory capture on the face of the #EnvironmentBill and it would be better without it.
It's another Parliament TV dinner for those tuning in to debates on the #EnvironmentBill

We'll be back at 8pm.

📺🥪🫖
And we're back!

Lord Cameron adds his support for the deletion of Clause 24 from the #EnvironmentBill

For the Defra Secretary of State to give guidance to the OEP on how to exercise its enforcement function - "this must be wrong...and would be a travesty of proper governance".
.@natalieben says "structures must not depend on individuals".

Other existing oversight bodies have stronger independence that the OEP.

It's not good enough to leave independence in the hand of ministers.

#EnvironmentBill
Lord Hope says there is a degree of unreality about this #EnvironmentBill debate.

There is much to be said in the view that it is "no business" of the Secretary of State to give guidance to the OEP on how it pursues its enforcement role

One cannot pick & choose on legal meaning
.@uxbridgewalrus urges the minister to consult with Peers on the important matter of OEP independence - there are "lingering doubts" on this and he shares the concern that others have expressed.

A strongly independent OEP could actually help the government.

#EnvironmentBill
And they just keep coming!

@LordTevLNP is now on his feet adding his concerns on OEP independence.

He reminds us of the government's commitment to world leading environmental governance in the #EnvironmentBill - it must be strengthened to deliver this.
.@WhitchurchGirl was really disappointed by the minister's earlier response on independence (she is not alone on that).

She says this guidance power is not right for an enforcement body like the OEP and is a fundamental undermining of OEP independence.

#EnvironmentBill
Oh dear. This 'more of the same' response from the minister misses the mark & does not respond with appropriate recognition of the serious & cross party consensus on the importance of OEP independence.

This matter will not simply go away & will return at Report

#EnvironmentBill
Lord Krebs says we are not yet "out of the mire" on the issue of OEP independence, specifically this ministerial guidance power.

He hopes that it will be possible to find a way forward before Report stage of the #EnvironmentBill to avoid a confrontation.
Lord Lucas suggests that the OEP should develop a truth and openness policy.

Lord Krebs suggests that the guidelines published by the govt chief scientific adviser may help as this recommends an open and transparent approach.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/upl…
In an area where all sorts of voices can get pre-eminence, the independence of the OEP really matters argues @RosieBoycott

@LordWajidKhan welcomes this amendment which will mean the OEP explains in its strategy how it will work with its devolved counterparts.

#EnvironmentBill
Probably time for one (2?) more mini debate in this mammoth discussion on the OEP.

Its role in overseeing the new UK chemicals governance system is up next.

This is crucial territory given the public health and environmental interest in chemicals.

#EnvironmentBill
Update on #EnvironmentBill timetable - Peers have thoroughly interrogated OEP independence & environmental principles today.

For those waiting for the debate on important amendments on the OEP's enforcement powers/ framework, that looks likely to be first or second on Wednesday.
Back to this debate - @SueHayman1 is arguing for a review clause on UK REACH - we support an early review to make sure that the new system is working efficiently, protections are being maintained and HSE is working sufficiently independently and rigorously.

#EnvironmentBill
Baroness Bakewell of HM is now speaking, She along with several other Peers and the Minister have been present in this debate since 2.30pm.

It's a long time to maintain concentration and focus and Peers do this brilliantly.

I am certainly starting to get a bit goggle eyed... 👀
.@GreenJennyJones also stresses the importance of avoiding animal testing in chemicals as much as possible.

This is a crucial issue but there are other important public protection objectives of chemicals regulation.

Our previous briefing on REACH 👇
greeneruk.org/sites/default/…
.@LordTevLNP raises an important point on divergence from the EU on chemicals standards which causes confusion, increases costs to chemical supply chains & could increase animal testing.

Baroness Bloomfield responds for the govt. The #EnvironmentBill already enables a review.
At this late hour @kateparminter kicks off an important debate on the meaning of environmental law (which has similar exclusions to the clauses on environmental principles).

The OEP should also be freer to give advice on ministers, not just when asked.

#EnvironmentBill
The #EnvironmentBill will be back in @UKHouseofLords on Wednesday.

We will resume this technical but important debate on the meaning of environmental law then.

Night all!

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More from @ruthmchambers

7 Jun
The #EnvironmentBill is in @UKHouseofLords today for its 'second reading', when it will debated for several hours by Peers.

We'll be live tweeting and you can watch from 2.30pm at parliamentlive.tv/Lords
68 Peers are signed up to speak in this important debate on the #EnvironmentBill

You can see the line up here

lordswhips.org.uk/todays-lists
This is the first dedicated #EnvironmentBill for over 20 years

The stakes couldn't be higher therefore. But we’re still lacking the right building blocks to restore nature, air and water in the UK

Read our @GreenerUK_ @WCL_News briefing for more detail

greeneruk.org/sites/default/…
Read 73 tweets

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