Thread by @shaunjlawson

Indeed it doesn't. In short, it's complicated.

1. How many men understand what harassment even is? Answer: nowhere near enough.

2. Workplaces in particular are astonishingly bullying environments. Hierarchies are themselves macho and based on horrible power imbalances.

https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1441318911807348737

3. But there's confusion out there: an absolute ton of it.

In March, YouGov included as possible sexual harassment, 'a man asking a woman out for a drink'. It removed that after a backlash - but at least some women will consider that as harassment.

yougov.co.uk/topics/relatio…

It depends on the woman, and the situation - and especially on the emotional intelligence of the man.

But men aren't taught emotional intelligence. Nobody is. And many men find themselves expected to both be emotionally intelligent AND not show their emotions. That is nuts.

Is it still frowned on when men cry? I'd say it is, yes. The shockingly high male suicide rates don't come from nowhere.

Men aren't even physically tactile with male friends. Whereas many women are with female friends. Has anyone thought through the implications of that?

Human beings need love like plants need light. Physical touch is a need which pretty much all humans have.

So if men aren't in intimate relationships, aren't having sex and even hugging a male friend is a taboo,what do people think is going to happen, at least with some of them?

Then there are the mixed messages. Tons of them. Which are constantly there across society and incredibly confusing to most young people. Even, older people.

I'll give you two examples. Both from television - but both touched on something which is real.

Some of you might recall an episode of Ally McBeal which covered harassment: which certainly happened.
The question the programme asked its audience, though, was: "If she'd found him attractive, would this have been harassment?" She answered "no".

Then combine that with men STILL, all over the world, being expected 'to make the first move'. So plenty of men will end up concluding: "So I'm expected to risk rejection AND being accused of harassment? "

And you might say: "It doesn't work like that".

But for at least some women, it probably does. Especially when they've suffered much worse over the years; you can't ever predict 100% how anyone will react in any situation.

Emotional intelligence often involves sensing things which aren't said. But that's fraught. Very.

The second TV example was from a BBC drama in the 2000s. I can never remember what it was called; it was about a group of northern factory workers.

One of these workers was a middle aged cardigan wearing geek and bit of a washout... but certainly a nice, caring man.

He asked a woman out... and to his shock, she said yes.

He took her out for a drink. Whereupon - I can't remember how exactly, mostly his nerves I think - he let slip that he'd brought condoms with him. Just in case.

She was FURIOUS and ended the date instantly.

Even though he was just taking precautions *in case* one thing led to another.

What did she then do? She sat down next to the most misogynistic, sexually aggressive man in the whole place. Who told her he'd give her the night of her life.

And... she went home with him.

Which, in case there's any doubt over what I'm writing here, was entirely her right and her prerogrative. But on any logical basis, how does anyone explain that? And that sort of thing happens too. Quite a lot.

She'd pigeonholed the geek as marriage material. And the misogynist as sex material.

She punished the first man for actually caring about her; and in sexual terms, she effectively rewarded the second man for being an arsehole.

See also: someone I know on Facebook who's a perfectly nice person and good fun to be around. Who flew all the way to Spain to meet a guy... only to discover he had other women too.

She was very upset. She wrote about it. Yet she slept with him regardless and was happy about it.

He'd lied to her. He'd deceived her. Yet (again, purely in sexual terms), he was rewarded for that... and she couldn't see the problem.

A close friend of mine who's friends with her was appalled. Just as I was when told by male friend after male friend throughout my 20s:

"Shaun, if you want to find a woman, you have to ignore them and even treat them badly. Who knows why - but it's what you have to do".

I never accepted that. Ever. But I know it's what a lot of men think and it's based on their experiences. Which they don't just make up.

It's what a lot of young men think where I live now too. There's practically an epidemic of this sort of thinking.
And just to make things even messier: I hardly know a single couple in Uruguay who didn't get together in the following, beyond messed up way:

- Boy meets girl
- Boy and girl like each other
- Boy asks girl out
- Girl says no
- Weeks later, boy asks girl out again
- Girl says no
- Months later, boy asks girl out again
- Girl says yes
- Long term relationship, marriage and family often result.

Just how messed up is THAT

Very often, that's what happens as a result of women being brought up to expect both a knight in shining armour/'principe azul' and clear commitment from the right man. So they test them. They test their long term commitment.

Yet where I'm from, no means no means no means NO!

Every single man I know here who ended up with their wife or partner in the above way was guilty, in any objective sense, of sexual harassment. Of course they were.

Yet does that mean their partner felt obligated in any way? No, not at all. The above pattern is very normal here

I'll finish, though, with a few brighter points.

First: I do think things here are gradually improving; young people have pretty different attitudes to their parents, and young women, based on all I've been told, are steadily becoming likelier to make the first move.

Second: so much of what I wrote about above is essentially about young women and men learning about themselves, dating, sex and relationships by making mistakes. Getting it wrong until they finally get it right.

Isn't that how anyone learns about anything?

Learning about and knowing yourself and what you want only comes with time. And with time comes higher self-esteem and more of a sense that you're worth better.

It also often leaves 'bad boys' on the outside looking in. Joey Tribbiani wasn't a 'bad boy' exactly... but I do think there was a message in him ending up with no-one, and going nowhere in life.

Finally, I want to return to that awful stuff about 'needing to treat women badly'

I think it stems from a pretty chronic misunderstanding. Which is as follows. Many of the best, lasting relationships start from a position of two people who, because they're attracted to each other, tease and make fun of each other.

Never ever in a nasty way. In a fun way.

In the right relationship, not only communication, trust, compromise and hard work are all essential. Warmth and above all, comedy are too.

Shakespeare knew this. Compare Claudio and Hero with Beatrice and Benedick in Much Ado About Nothing.

The former was based on very traditional ideas of romance and purity. The latter was based entirely on comedy: B and B bantering with each other, taking the piss out of each other, but only because they fancied each other rotten.

Their relationship was the ideal in many ways.

But something like that cannot ever be forced. If the dynamic is there, it just happens - it's like two people speaking and acting in code.

But it's *because* it's in code, and *because* there are no 'rules', that attraction remains such a mystery.

And such a complete headfuck

Beyond that: anything which talks about 'what men want', 'what women want', 'how men behave' or 'how women behave' is always as flawed as it gets... because there's getting on towards 8 billion people on this planet, and no two among them are identical.

We're all individuals.

But the confusion so many feel all the time? It's sadly inevitable in a ridiculously oversexualised world which often seems more libertine (bad) than liberal (good) to me.

All most people can do is muddle through as best they can.

Finally, have I ever made the first move? No, never. I've probably missed countless 'opportunities' as a result - but I'd always rather be safe than sorry, and in any case: on occasion, something has just clicked with someone, and we've both known.

Nothing more needed to be said

"All the world's a stage, and all the men and women, merely players".

That's still as true now as it was all those centuries ago. But we need a society which teaches people to recognise, release, regulate and manage feelings and emotions - and allows everyone to just be.