Thread by @MerricB

I've just been reminded that one of the most significant changes in 3E from what came before was to make it much harder for high-level monsters and characters to resist spells.

We're still living with those effects.

In AD&D, a very high-level fighter needed a 6 to save vs a fireball. There was nothing the caster could do to change that number (as I recall).

Add in magic (cloaks of resistance, rings of protection) and the fighter was only failing to save on a natural 1.

And this really changes how magic works.

From 3E, the caster determines the DC of the save - and if you pick the right spell, the target gets worse at resisting it as you gain levels.

So, for a spell like Banishment or Hold Person, for high-level casters, these are close to automatic successes.

I'm not sure that the game play is improved by this.

But having "spell does nothing on a save" at high levels isn't great either. And so you see some spell designs working on different things than just saving throws.

Banishment is interesting. In 1E, you could lower the target's saving throw by using material components opposed to the target.

Maze works automatically (no to-hit roll, nothing) but lasts according to the intelligence of the target. From 1-4 rounds to 20-80 minutes. Except on minotaurs. ;)

Power Word, Kill paid attention to current hit points.

Imprisonment had no save, but only worked if you knew the name and background of the target.

So, you do get the feeling the designers were thinking "Oh no! It's too easy to save, so how do we get our high-level spells to work?"

While today, spells can work TOO well! :)