Thread by @PoliBard

So it's #IBACtime again. This will be the #OpWatts thread for the day. Today's witness is Kirsten Psaila, electoral officer for Marlene Khairouz, and not in any way a branch stacker, although that opinion may be shattered by day's end.

Abbreviations list in the next tweet.

CR - Comm. Redlich
CA - Counsel Assisting
W - Witness
AS - Adem Somyurek
MK - Marlene Kairouz
RS - Robin Scott
NE - Nazih Elasmar
KV - Kaushaliya Vaghela
HH - Hussein Haraco
SACOV - Somali Australian Council of Victoria
BMR - Bracks/Macklin Report
CCB - Corrupt, Cheating Bastards

Additional abbreviations may be added during the thread. WC will be used for witness counsel, if he intervenes.

And with that, the stream is up! We'll be going through witness formalities for a few minutes, then it's over to Mr Carr, for this mornings castigations.
#OpWatts

Just FYI, Kirsten just stated her name during swearing, and she pronounces her name more like "piss-sailor" than "silah" if you were wondering how to pronounce that.

CR is just finishing up his rights and obligations briefing to the witness, juicy stuff about to start!
#OpWatts

LOL, and it's already bloody! Mr Carr apologises for his appearance, "not as skillful on a bicycle as he thought" and clearly stacked it, going down face first. Bark off on his nose, huge bark off the chin. What a trooper. Didn't pull a sickie, like that Haraco prick.
#OpWatts

Going into W's history now, 19 years ALP member, and has worked on POSC.
CA now brings up BMR, asks W if she's read it, confirms she has.
CA brings up the section on branch secretaries and their roles as coordinators and lieutanants in branch stacking.
CA - that you?
#OpWatts

W - doesn't understand.
CA now clarifies branch stacking as "non genuine members" and "factional work" as ALP membership business.
CA - have you been involved in branch stacking? W - Yes
CA - when?
W - years, 15 years
Clarifies it's "members who can't afford the fee"
#OpWatts

W was introduced to branch stacking by George Seats, an agreed notorious branch stacker.
CR now intervenes on the previous "can't afford the fees" answer to ask for clarification. He wants to know if she's only ever assisted members in financial hardship. W - yes.
#OpWatts

CA - "We'll get back to that" LOL(Receipts coming, I have a feeling)
CA asks about branch stacking on George's behalf. Witness agrees she did so. Same sort of things we've already heard regarding collection of membership renewals and ballots.
CA - was the office a base
#OpWatts

Witness gets out early to declare that she only did ALP work on her own time, Carr says we'll get back to that (more receipts could be coming)
W states George was in charge of everything, directing everything.
CR wants to know why she said that, since it wasn't asked.
#OpWatts

CR has picked up that she's trying to get out early as a non rule breaker. Witness agrees with this.
CA now back to non genuine members. Asks if W knew where the money was coming from to pay for memberships. W gives a very wobbly "No" with full millenial uptick.
#OpWatts

CR intervenes again, he's SO on to her. W claims that she isn't aware of any non genuine members.
Now CR wants to know why it would matter where the money came from if it was a genuine hardship situation. It's a tag team effort today, they are circling like vultures.
#OpWatts

So we've clarified that George was paying for other memberships, and she doesn't know how much.
CA - Did you ever face internal charges over membership issues?
W - Not sure, think there might have been.
CA - You don't remember?(There SO was, it's common knowledge)
#OpWatts

CA - do you remember the allegation specifics?
W - A membership form wasn't signed by a member, and the claim was that it was me, and it definitely wasn't, and I've never done that.
CA - did this allegation lead to a convo with George, and inquiries about what you did?
#OpWatts

CR back in again, was there any doubt the form was forged? W - no.
CR - so, either George or someone from that office must have forged it.
W - yes, but it wasn't me.
CR - so you've given a terrible answer to CA's question.
(She's dirty as, this woman. Squirming already)
#OpWatts

CA - Did you ever have concerns about further forged memberships, given you had an accusation against yourself?
W - it occurred to me
CA - Did you ever raise this with George?
W - No
CR again! - It cant be right for you to say you had no interest, due to your allegation
#OpWatts

W - OK, i had discussions re the amount of forms going through, he said it was just normal.
CA - Did you ever ask George how you'd been put in the position of submitting a forged document?
W - it came out of the letterbox
CA - you admit the form was forged
#OpWatts

CA - why didn't you challenge George on this answer?
W - i was put under the bus
CA - yeah, and why didn't you ask George why?
W - George claimed it was a legitimate signature. I trusted him, I believed him at the time.
CR intervenes "how could you accept this story?"

#OpWatts

W confused again. She didn't know at the time it was forged, and it's rather unclear when she's admitting to that becoming clear.
CA - Did you discuss this allegation against you when you went to work for MK?
W - no
CA - did you discuss branch stacking with MK?
W - yes
#OpWatts

W is insisting on branch stacking being all about financial hardship members, doesn't want to go near non genuine members.
CA now asks if MK took over George's members when he passed, W agrees it's a fair statement.
After George retired, he stayed active in memberships
#OpWatts

Witness says that she moved from George's office to MK after a brief break. George was also involved in getting MK pre-selected.
Now we're talking about membership "transfer" where MK will now be expected to pay these "hardship" memberships.
CA - how did MK pay for them
#OpWatts

MK paid for these in cash, from her personal account.
CA - how much per year?
W - $4-5k. Occasionally members would pay later.
CA - did MK give you cash for anything else?
W - yeah, tattslotto!
CA - How about larger amounts?
W - paid a credit card bill once.
#OpWatts

CA - During 2015 renewal season, MK transferred to you, and you withdrew in cash, $14700. (WOW, what's that about, eh?) And then $18000 for 2016, same deal.

But then in 2017, same thing happened again, but only $1000. Why the change?
W - cash was collected from members
#OpWatts

CA wants the shortfall explained, W says that MK gave her cash, maybe around $5k.(There are some big holes here need plugging, good luck Mr Carr.)
Now CR is in again, asking W if she continued the same kind of membership work, W agrees.
W agrees to ALP bus. on work time
#OpWatts

Now CA wants to know from W about the proportion of work done for ALP during office hours, and he's got a whole bag full of receipts by the sound of it. Asks specifically about first half 2018.
He's giving her an opportunity to hang herself, let's see if she takes it.
#OpWatts

W - 5-6 hours a week, if not more
CA - might have been quite a bit more, couldn't it?(LMAO, the receipts must be devastating)
W - maybe
CA - you did quite a bit of overtime during that period, didn't you?
W - yes
CR intervenes again, to ask about MK conversations
#OpWatts

CR - Did you discuss any of the public fallout from the BMR with MK?
W - yes
CR - how long was the conversation, and when?
W - immediately after the news broke, and in the office.
CR - before or after MK took litigation action?
W - I think before.
#OpWatts

2nd witness for the week playing dumb and pretending not to understand questions. It's painful listening to CA and CR going back over everything to clarify.
CR intervenes - Did you notice Miss Kelly on Monday move from a "I know nothing!" position to "yeah, it happened"
#OpWatts

W - yes
CR - I do not want you to end the day in a completely different position to where you are now.(OUCH)
CA - was MK unaware of what factional work you were doing in the office when she allegedly asked you about it?
W - I'm sure she knew, but wanted clarity
#OpWatts

CR - Isn't it likely that MK asked you that question because she wanted to know what you would say(OMFG, they are roasting her😂)
W - well she already knew what I'd say, I wasn't going to lie(LOL)
CA now drilling down in to the activities from W for nat conference.
#OpWatts

CR - don't play yourself as a minor role, you were managing that factional activity(It's a total spit roast today)
Now we're asking about the "team captains" previously mentioned, Sivski? and Peng are mentioned. And a definition of what captains are.
#OpWatts

Witness was herself a captain of around 100 members, same with Peng, another MK electoral officer. Seems to be a division of labor for pragmatic purposes and possibly not 100% factional.
Now we're asking about Bobby somebody, who was a running joke who never turned up.
#OpWatts

W describes Bobby as super busy, did facebook, all the social media, birthday cards, etc.
Uh oh, here comes a recording......
A male voice discussing "northern areas" and Garotti and Hussein. It's self sustaining apparently.
Discussion of some other electorates.
#OpWatts

"Self sustaining, won't need to do much" - not clear exactly what that means.
Garotti getting mentioned a few times, what a player.
Recording stopped now, it was from March 2020. So well after #RedShirts and BMR.
CA asks what "putting 13s" means?

#OpWatts

W - related to new membership limits, and the need for special approval to join up more than 6/7 at a monthly meeting.
CA - what was your involvement?
W - branch meeting at my house, collected forms & money, sent to head office.
CA - were they random people?
W - no
#OpWatts

W - team captains, activists, etc had found them and sent them my way, and if there were more than 13, we'd hold them over for next month.
CA - the point of this was to secure internal votes, wasn't it?
W - correct
CA - this is why MK gave you $15k, isn't it?
W - yes
#OpWatts

CA - it's a significant investment, isn't it?
W - yes
CA - it's a fair inference you wouldn't make that investment without controlling the votes
W - yes
CA - you were involved in this process
W - yes
CA - you collected ballots
W - yes
#OpWatts

CA - they'd be filled in at the electoral office?
W - yes
CA - commonly known as "centralising ballots?"
W - yes
CA - it's a common activity?
W - yes
CA - among all factions?
W - yes
CA - and factional operatives fill them in very carefully for maximum return?
W - yes
#OpWatts

CA - and if you're paying $15k to control the ballots, you're going to want to collect them to control the process?
W - yes
CA - and this was done on public time by yourself and others?
W - yes
CA - and that's just standard practice within ALP, isn't it?
W - yes
#OpWatts

CR intervenes to ask about her earlier answer that her work was mostly legit.
W agrees her earlier answer was not accurate.
(It seems that CR is cranky after sitting through the faux outrage of yesterday's witness, and he's not holding back today.

Break time! Back in 10
#OpWatts

And we're back, and with a quick unmute, we're away again!
CA back on "captains"
Hamdi Koyu(HK) first up.
Witness straight up says he did factional work, but also genuine work. CA doesn't have issue with the genuine work, he's there for the dodgy stuff.
#OpWatts

(These fucking idiot Labor clowns seem to think "we weren't always bad" is a defence of bad behaviour. It's total kindergarten thinking. I dunno how Carr stays polite at times.)
Now CA brings up "ethnic captains"
Oooooo, Dinesh (KV's hubby) mentioned again
#OpWatts

W knew him as a captain, but not in her area.
CA now draws her attention to Monday's testimony from KV that her husband wasn't doing much electoral work, and the witness wants to disagree with KV's own testimony 😂
#OpWatts

Apparently Dinesh was very active in identifying the ethnicities of new people in the electorate. Cos race really, really matters in an egalitarian country like Australia 🤦‍♀️
Now CA is bringing up dodgy access to the AEC database. W admits to using it frequently.
#OpWatts

CA asks about any training on AEC database issues, but witness says no, but mentions it now needs authorisation that wasn't needed previously.
CA now asking about Kelly and her responsibility for members, but W says she didn't have any responsibility.
#OpWatts

CA says he has a document with Kelly associated with 4 members, W says it would have been because she personally knew them, and probably fair enough. (I think Kelly was too dumb or honest to get deeply involved in these shenanigans. Not a captain, IMHO)
#OpWatts

CA asking about De Bruin now, and was he a secretary of the faction. Witness is playing dumb on this one.
CR intervenes to clarify he was working in the ministerial office and asks if ministerial staff were doing factional work, W admits thats likely true.
#OpWatts

Now Daniel Merlino's name comes up. So much nepotism in that party..... Meritocracy denied.
And now we're on to the phone taps again. Same call as before.
Discussions about MAC. Self sustaining comes up again, clearly means something internally.
#OpWatts

Now sounds like Kirsten has been name dropped on the call, by Khairouz. CA puts it that Khairouz was naming her as a good operator, who could branch stack without supervision. Witness agrees.
Now CA takes her back to her "post 60 minutes story" chat with MK.
#OpWatts

CA puts it that MK did not ask "what factional work" W was doing, because MK full well knew what she was doing, and that she was expert at it.
CR puts it that MK was fully asking "what will you say" and W agrees that's the case.
Back to the phone intercept again briefly.
#OpWatts

It was a brief discussion about picking up nomination forms for national conference. One that requires 30 signatures of ALP members. Sounds like MK had 20 blank, prefilled forms ready to go. W disagrees, saying it was more like 10.
#OpWatts

CA now describing how the forms work. Candidates name at the top.....
CR now interrupts, and asked if Kelly was nominated without her knowledge, as she testified on Monday she had no knowledge or interest of internal politics.
BINGO! Should have been brought up before.
#OpWatts

Sounds like possibly Kelly was a "non genuine delegate" in the way "non genuine members" are farmed, and Psaila may have nominated her to MK to fill a gap.
CA - you kept detailed records in MK's office of every vote cast? W - yes
CA - including ballots collected? "Yes"

#OpWatts

CA - and who they voted for?
W - Yes
CA - And was this kept secret from Miss Kelly?
W - not deliberately, but not something that she would be aware of without effort on her behalf
CR - Whats the importance of getting elected to nat conference?
W - lots of things
#OpWatts

CR - As a pathway to power, or pre-selection? Witness agrees that's fair.
CA - they can override other bodies within the party, it's a very powerful position? Witness agrees
CA - and in 2018, there was a hostile situation between the conroy faction and the AS faction?

#OpWatts

CA - there was an effort to have Conroy removed from Nat executive and replaced with AS?
W - yes, it was well known at the time.
CA - and the massive effort during 2018 was related to achieving that objective?
W - yes
CA - all about internal power, isn't it?
W - yes
#OpWatts

CA - branch stackings primary objective is power within the party? Witness agrees
Now CA back to the money MK spent on memberships. Asks if W believes that was only about hardship?
W - nah.....
CA - it was spent to obtain power within the party
W - yes
#OpWatts

CA now asking about the enormous amount of admin effort in controlling membership and ballots to enable branch stacking. Witness agrees.
CA - And that's where you came in
W - yes....
CA - centralising ballots happened every election?
W - yes
#OpWatts

Now we're back to Nat Conference "blank" nomination forms.
Forms must have the nominee, and then 30 ALP member signatures. This is how candidates get on the ballot.
CA puts it that MK is talking about forms with 30 signatures, and no nominee written in.
W - yes
#OpWatts

CA - like a blank cheque
W - yep
CA - were you involved?
W - yep
CR - who decided who later got nominated?
W - AS, MK, RS and such from moderate Labor
CA - have you ever signed one of these blank forms?
W - yep(she's learning, cos receipts are about to be shown)
#OpWatts

CA - and this is standard practice, isn't it?
W - yep
CR now asks how many elections W can recall where this happened
W - *big sigh* definitely Nat Exec, cant recall other examples, but if it was needed, it got done.
CR - Do you recognise it's wrong?
W - of course it was
#OpWatts

CR - can you say what's wrong about it? Do you agree that genuine members aren't having a proper say in the function of the party?
W - yes
CA puts it that this largely involves non genuine members.
W - well they signed a form, that must mean something.
#OpWatts

CA - they didn't join without prompting, didn't pay for themselves, didn't vote for themselves, that's not much interest. Witness agrees.
CA - it's a perversion of internal process, isn't it?
W - yes
CR notes that many of the signatures are factional operatives. W - yes
#OpWatts

W is reviewing the signatures, and she knows most of the names. Many staff and relatives.....
(It seems these blank forms were mostly signed by people who were in deep enough to know to keep their mouths shut, which makes sense. CCB....)

#OpWatts

And back to the phone intercept again, AS and MK I believe, plus unidentified 3rd party.
But before then, CR intervenes to ask the witness if anybody ever engaged with her about the impropriety of this unethical process? W - NO
CR making the case it's cultural.
#OpWatts

CA - This is seriously wrong conduct?
W - Yep, but they all do it(She's dejected AF at this point. She knows they know everything)
CA asks about her attachment to the party, and if she was enthusiastic and idealistic. Witness completely agrees.
#OpWatts

CA now wants to know about her journey from bright eyed idealogue, to dirty branch stacker, and reminds her there are many others who have done son.
W - I worked as an EO, to help the community. Like a social worker role. OK, I did ALP stuff as well.
#OpWatts

CA now asking how she went from ideological to dodgy. Was it because everyone was doing it?
W - yes
CA - Because an MP was involved?
W - yes
CA - Did you respect George?
W - yes
(This is a good angle from Carr, it's behind every single dodgy operative most likely)
#OpWatts

CR - So these unethical practises just became the norm for you, didn't they?
W - yeah(she's not dwelling on answers anymore)
CR - but this couldn't continue without the cooperation of the MP and their office?
W - yes
W - Can I say something? My work wasn't all factional
#OpWatts

CR - Yes, we're aware of that, but not interested in the legit work.

W is now having a little cry, she's starting to confront the awful reality of her sins, and the party she started the day defending. We're going to have a 5 min break so she can compose herself.
#OpWatts

Psaila has taken the Garotti journey far more quickly, he held out strong early, and took most of the 2 days to arrive where Psaila is right now. Huge change in the demeanour of Psaila in the last hour. She's realised not being frank just hurts her, "yeps" are rapid
#OpWatts

When the ppl asking the questions already know all the answers, the best thing to do is be frank. Anthony Byrne, first up at IBAC, was an absolute model witness. The idiots coming after him should have watched that to death. CR rightly acknowledged him for his candour.
#OpWatts

As much as it's hard seeing people broken when confronted with their misdeeds, just remember that these people broke Labor, by preventing candidates who might have done better jobs from getting elected to parliament, and that's a hurt on us all.
#OpWatts

And we're back! Psaila is composed, but clearly in a different frame of mind and will hopefully be rather more frank for the rest of the day.
CA is diving into the receipts bin again. Yummy!
Seems to be a membership log of Psaila's "team"
Seems to cover many electorates
#OpWatts

CA - lists were obtained from ALP h/o, and spreadsheets were made, including "status" columns?
W - yes
CA - and this column indicates the ballot was mailed, and the 1st and 2nd preference choices on that ballot?
W - yes
(So much for the secret ballot, eh?)
#OpWatts

(Psaila is being rather more direct now, wondering if her counsel had a word to her that the jig is up during the break)
Now CA is running down the spreadsheet and asking about the 2nd pref candidates listed with her, there's at least half a dozen different ones.
#OpWatts

Basically a who's who of party hacks, most likely.
Now CA asking about a Chang, and were they ever employed in MK's office?
W - seems genuinely uncertain. "Rings a bell" but doesn't remember specifics. Probably one of those ghost workers.
CA now onto "how to vote" cards
#OpWatts

CA showing many cards with Psaila listed as 1st pref, with various other people as 2nd pref.(Not shown on screen so far)
CA focusing on the name "Moussa" for some reason.
Not sure if these names are handwritten in on the HTV cards.
CA now makes it clearer.....
#OpWatts

It's a recording of how particular members voted, although Psaila was the one filling in the ballots for them. Witness agrees this is accurate.
Now another spreadsheet coming up.
And Elanor, Georges wife comes up. She was a captain too, according to the witness.
#OpWatts

Witness agrees that "25 ballots" refers to a drop off by Elanor of ballots for filling in.
CA asks about the "MK" column, and W agrees it refers to Marlene Khairouz, and they are either supporters of her, or to be filled out in her favour.
#OpWatts

W now referred to a notation of "mailed" as being metaphoric, and mostly those ballots would have been hand delivered to ALP h/o.
CR now asking if this spreadsheet is compiled before or after ballot collection, witness clarifies it's after ballot collection.
#OpWatts

CA now refers to Mr Yigit claiming "you couldn't just have any idiot filling out these ballots" and W agrees that they were collected and filled in at the office by experienced operators.
CR clarifies blank ballots were collected, witness agrees.
#OpWatts

CA now asking about who was tasked with filling them in according to how the spreadsheet was arranged, and W lists a few names I didn't catch.
It seems the spreadsheet was used to determine how ballots would be filled out.
"All hands on deck" gets a mention again
#OpWatts

W agrees that's a fair description in her office, can't comment on others.
And yet another exhibit coming now, another spreadsheet.
Has handwritten notes of votes Psaila has filled out, plus other ballots. There's around 400 in total, only 28 were mailed by members....
#OpWatts

CA now driling down, 440 votes in total apparently. "124 office" is an interesting entry, thats for sure.
More receipts coming now.....Witness confirms some of the handwriting is hers. Still not on screen yet. Seems to be more vote tallies. Shown briefly, then removed.
#OpWatts

CA now asking about Christine, and if it's her handwriting, but W seems determined to exclude her from any active involvement in these kind of activities.
Some boring stuff now about ballots collected and either mailed or dropped off.
#OpWatts

And now CA showing a spreadsheet which seems to collate the hand written list shown previously. It seems Labor are very meticulous when there's a benefit in it for them, pity they can't apply that to taxpayers finances.
CA wanting to know the process behind this.
#OpWatts

Seems they are initially hand writing everything, then recording it in spreadsheets, likely so they can be shared.

And that's it for now, we're having a lunch break. Back at 2.15 according to CR, which might be 2.45 for the viewing public. I'll be watching either way.
#OpWatts

OK and we're back!!! Straight into it, CA starts asking about how Psaila came to know about which way to mark ballots.
"GIven you were struggling to identify some of the names, I assume you were directed to put those names there"
W - yes, HTV cards came from Sullivan.
#OpWatts

CA - Did you get them all from Sullivan?
W - Some from Sullivan, Sal?, and some from AS. At least I assumed they came from AS.
CA - did you discuss this?
W - all i knew was that I'd be getting ballot papers and HTV cards.
CA - who told you?
W - Khairouz.
#OpWatts

CA now asking how the captains came to be appointed as EO's. Was MK involved?
W - yes
CA did she suggest them to you, or tell you they'd be joining?
W - Peng and Kelly were already there. MK asked W about someone Macedonian speaking who could do electorate work.
#OpWatts

W - And that's when Di came on (Di Brouer?)
CA - What about Hamdi Koyu? How did he come to be in the office?
W - he worked for a fed MP before. And then came work for MK. He worked on constituent issues, and grant issue. Regarding council grants, seniors and such.
#OpWatts

CA - was Hamdi a captain before working as EO for MK?
W - yes
CA - so he was already working to manage members, collect ballots, etc?
W - yes
CA - at your direction?
W - No
CA - in cooperation?
W - no, I dont know who directed him, possibly Sal.
#OpWatts

CA - MK was directing you re ballots, did you ever receive any direction from AS?
W - no. He came into the office one day, but just for "hi and bye" Not a regular visitor at all. W admits to at least one phone call to check on the progress of ballot collection.

#OpWatts

CR intervening to remind witness of the phone call before lunch. Asks witness if she was aware MK and AS were cooperating together in branch stacking activities, Witness agrees.
CA fishing for relationship between W and AS, but seems it wasn't much, just pleasantries
#OpWatts

CA seems rather interested in this visit from AS to MK's office during ballot harvesting. Wanted to know the duration of the visit, was all afternoon according to W.
CA now asking what Sullivan was doing, "preparing HTV cards" apparently.
#OpWatts

CA now asking about how thorough the ballot processing operation was, seems it was very thorough, with cross checking of each ballot done.
CA - all done in front of AS?
W - yes
CA - and you understood at the time it was about a stoush with the Conroy faction?
W - yes
#OpWatts

CA - And the benefits of this operation were for AS, and all the power brokers in the mod/right faction? W - yes
Now CA is asking about ballot paper reissues, asking if the witness was aware of the template used for this process, W agrees.
Now we're looking at some.

#OpWatts

I hope they call the "Chris Jones" bloke all these letters were addressed to, and ask him if he ever got suss about all these ballot reissue forms.
Now another letter with Kelly's name on it. Seems she was at least a bit more involved than she let on Monday.

#OpWatts

CA now arguing that in some of these later letters, the request was for the ballot to be sent/collected to ALP "captains" as time was tight, with earlier letters asking for a re-send to the members registered address. W agrees with this.

#OpWatts

CA - Did Miss Kelly ever collect any?
W - Well she's said she never collected any.
CA - yes, that's what she's said (Gosh I hope there's receipts for that)
Now we're into some timeline stuff, for one particular member(Bosco?) the request was sent on the 1st but...
#OpWatts

....that ballot was sent to head office on the 2nd, super fast turn around.
And now we get the bombshell, the letter in question wasn't signed by the member, it was fraudulently signed (by a kindergarten kid, judging by the look of it, or maybe left handed.)
#OpWatts

CR now makes the case that the members signature wasn't really needed, since it was a non genuine membership for the purposes of ballot harvesting, witness is a bit confused by this line of reasoning.
Seems to be an awful amount of fraud going on internally at ALP
#OpWatts

Now we're looking at more letters that have allegedly not been signed by the member, according to a statement supplied to IBAC.
CA puts it that these letters were just a production line of ballot harvesting.
CR now asking who's responsibility was it to send these?
#OpWatts

W - Adam Sullivan made the template, but then we would have provided him the names.
CR - Did you keep a list of people who hadn't received a ballot paper yet?
W - the captains would tell me.
CR - So Sullivan created the template, but your office made the letters? "Yes"

#OpWatts

CR - And same process applied for both remailed ballots, and personally collected ballots? W - Yes.
Now we're on to George Hannas membership renewal form from 2019, and the signatures don't match.
And CA hints that W might have signed it, and it's vehemently denied

#OpWatts

Sounds like its a "Madonna" Awad? CA wants to know if she ever had any concerns at how quickly Madonna was able to turn around forms.
W - No.
Now CA pushes that if it was just Madonna doing signatures, they'd be consistent, and they aren't, so multiple people involved.
#OpWatts

CR intervenes to point out that CA is inviting her to agree 2 different people signed these 2 documents from George Hanna, and she agrees with that.
He continues "if you're not personally involved, don't you see this type of activity, and see where it leads?"
#OpWatts

We're moving on from "who" on forged signatures, and asking how much time it would save to be able to do this.
W - yeah, but it's against the law!
CA - You understand how much time it saves to not physically collect 100 signatures?
W - Yes, but I didn't do it.
#OpWatts

CA - The evidence collected by this organisation of these activities is not by any means limited to your office.🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
CR intervenes to clarify that W did not forge signatures, and didn't know it was going on, W agrees definitively.
And it's receipt time again....
#OpWatts

Looks like some more forged signatures from 2 members from Madonna's team. W knows nothing about it.
CA - was the process that you'd make up the template letters, give them to Madonna, and she'd get the members to sign?
W - yes, and then Madonna would ask for collection
#OpWatts

Seems like Madonna did a lot of her activities literally "in house"
This is extraordinarily efficient. Within 2 days, a ballot reissue was requested, letter printed, signed, submitted, ballot collected, filled out, signed and submitted.

By public servants 😂😂😂😂 GTFOH
#OpWatts

CA now arguing that this was a pointless box ticking exercise, and arguing that lazy people would shortcut the signature process, as it makes no practical difference when it's a NGM and a harvested ballot.
W seems not to understand this mindset, disagrees that they would
#OpWatts

CA - even after I've established there are several forgeries here in evidence?
W - *struggles*
CR butting in now to lay it out. He describes all the steps and the effort involved, it's not inconsiderable to anyone with half a brain working. Sounds a bit frustrated
#OpWatts

CR wants to know straight up if she knew short cuts were being taken.
W - no, very tentatively
CA - same for membership forms?
W - yes, tentative again
(She just sounded like a super liar just now)
CA now reminds her of her fraud charges from 2005, seems she's incurious.
#OpWatts

CA pushing hard on this, she KNOWS this stuff goes on even if the allegation against her was wrong, it's evidence she can't deny that it does go on.
CR intervening again, pointing out the lengthy process involved in something they somehow did in 2 days.
#OpWatts

CR intervening again to clarify that before ballots are filled in, the ballot envelope is already signed. Now CR wants to know how these envelopes are signed.
W - envelopes were given to captains to get the signatures.
CR - what would captains say to the members?
#OpWatts

CR - presumably it would be some kind of declaration, but it would have to be a false declaration?
W - yes....
CA - so the system requires false declarations from NGMs?
W - yes
CA - Whats the probability dozens of NGMs made false declarations against forged signatures?
#OpWatts

W - Well they wouldn't do that
CA - but people not interested in the ALP were happy to make false declarations for no benefit?
CR intervening again now to clarify the exact process of NGM ballots.
CR - The commission has evidence from other sources about this.
#OpWatts

CR - In other offices, there were people forging signatures of members on renewal forms and ballot envelopes.
CA - It seems likely this was going on in your office, and you weren't aware of it?
W - No.
CA - it didn't involve you, and you had no knowledge?(Receipts?)
#OpWatts

W - *squeaky maybe*
CR intervenes now to say the commission has no direct evidence of her involvement in fraudulent signatures, and she should be more direct with her answers.
CA going back to her 2005 fraud allegation now.
"You knew signatures could be forged"
W - yes
#OpWatts

CA - you stated those allegations had an impact on you, and you must have reflected on that bad behaviour?
W - yes
CA - And this churn of ballot reissue activity didn't raise any alarm bells? You must have wondered how many signatures were genuine.
W - at times
#OpWatts

CA - Who did you have suspicions about (Carr has the devil whispers going big time here)
W - I didn't have any particular suspicions
CA - You didn't see this as the inevitable result of people wanting to take short cuts
W - No......
Break Time! Back in 10.
#OpWatts

Well it's been 18 minutes, but as I type we're back in business. Hope she had a good chat with her counsel, cos perjury is a serious crime, and she's probably already done enough today.
#OpWatts

CA straight back to it, asks Witness to agree that sigs on 2 Hanna documents were forged. W agrees.
CA informs her IBAC has evidence of systematic fraud in at least one other MP's office, does she accept is rife?
W - I don't accept it cos I don't agree with it.
#OpWatts

CR interrupts to make her understand CA is trying to make her understand the picture that is already known.
CA puts it to the witness that she's a cog in a much larger machine, W agrees.
CA - lets put the fraud to one side for now(LOL) these processes weren't your own?
#OpWatts

W - no they weren't
CA - there was direction from above, from MK?
W - yes
CA - The process in this branch stacking machine crosses a lot of boundaries, would you agree?
W - *long pause* no, not from my end.
CA - let's work through it then.

#OpWatts

CA - there's evidence from members who say they didn't know they were still ALP members, including from your office. Were you aware of that?
W - No
CA - Can you understand the captains might just sign a renewal form? They never paid for it themselves. It's an investment

#OpWatts

CA - can you see how captains might just forge signatures without giving much thought to it?
W - no
CA restates it again, but witness just can't comprehend it apparently. Incredible.....
CA tries a new tack. Describes MPs and staffers filling in ballots as dishonest.
#OpWatts

W - but that's been the process for years
CR - But that's the problem, isn't it? Because it's been entrenched, it's very hard to point out unethical practises to you, isn't it?
W - yes.....
CA - Staffers and MP's involved, going on for years. Morality is suppressed.

#OpWatts

W - agrees.
CA - and this is all about power for factional leaders, isn't it?
W - yes
CA - And they need cogs in the machine like you to do what you do to enable this?
W - Not the forgery! But yes.
CA - but all the other stuff, all the admin required for it, is huge.
#OpWatts

CA - and much of that work was done on public time?
W - yes
CA - and it's corrosive of the moral compass, isn't it?
W - yes
CA - Were you ambitious for parliament at one stage?
W - yes, an upper house seat.
CA - are you a product of this factional system?
W - yes
#OpWatts

CA - The problem with this kind of system is, that by the time people arrive in parliament, they've been exposed to so much of this behaviour, that they are unlikely to bring a strong moral compass to politics, are they? 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
W - Can only speak for MK, but maybe so
#OpWatts

CA - they are all a part of this corrupt machinery, aren't they?
W - I guess so.
Seems Mr Carr is finished for the day, but CR has some questions.

Did the BMR report and 60 mins story change anything?
W - yes, couldn't accept memberships anymore.
#OpWatts

CR - what else changed?
W - I worked from home a lot more, because factional activity wasn't allowed to be done in electoral offices.
CR now quoting from BMR report I think?
"Parliament should not be funding factional/party specific activities at all." - Nov 2018
#OpWatts

It was actually from a directive issued via Parliament, probably in response to the #RedShirts report.
CR asks if any membership activities continued, witness agrees to some moderate membership management activities.
W - I didn't have the facilities to do it at home.
#OpWatts

CR - Did MK know about this?
W - No, she didn't.
CR - How could it be that members of parliament could ever consider the funding of factional work from public funds was acceptable. Any insight?
W - It's been a norm for a long time
CR - How do you explain that?
#OpWatts

W - They're trying to protect their seat
CR - but the ends can never justify the means, can it?
W - no
CR - can you throw any light on why consecutive MP's could use public funds for factional purposes?
W - protecting their seat, pre-selection blah blah.
#OpWatts

Here we go #RedShirts comes up finally. CR asks why that had no impact, and in fact it seems some factional activity increased after that report? Any explanation?
W - *long pause* No....No she can't.
CR - Did it cause you to alter your own practices at all?
#OpWatts

W - No, because I was still meeting the needs of the constituency.
Carr wants another go now.
"you seem to take on your own shoulders that you continued with factional work after 2018. If need be, we'll play you a recording(LOL, not again!)
Here comes a MK statement....
#OpWatts

"it takes a massive amount of work. It takes hours, and in my(MK) office it starts now" (this is from early 2020)
CA - is MK communicating that she knows what you're doing, as you're doing the renewals, because she knows how much work it is?
W - yes
#OpWatts

CA - so you were expected to do large amounts of factional work during office time?
W - yes
CA goes back to cash transfers now during renewal season.
From 2015-2020, MK transferred over $60k to W to be withdrawn as cash to be used for memberships. WOW.....
CA is done.
#OpWatts

CR asks to release her from summons, CA has no problem. He checks with WC, and he's got no questions, so that's it for evidence for today. CR giving the usual departure spiel, and then CA will update him on the next witness, not sure if we'll hear that part on camera.
#OpWatts

Witness asks about being recalled, and CR confirms that will not be happening without a fresh summons. Now we're on to the next witness, Marlene Khairouz.
CA says should be in public, but under strict IBAC conditions. Hmmmm, here we go.....
#OpWatts

WOW, the commission has received credible evidence that Khairous well being would be threatened by public examination, and her evidence will be heard in secret. And the next public hearing will be 10am next Monday, witness not named at this time.
#OpWatts

Well that's a bit of a bombshell ending. I think it's pretty rough she won't be testifying to her dirty deeds in public, but IBAC has strict rules, and they've clearly found a loophole that applies to her somehow.

Thanks for listening! Summary to be posted later.
#OpWatts