Thread by @shevereshtus

Here is an explanation of the view of Orthodox Judaism towards the Reform & Conservative moments and, more importantly, of Jews who are members of these movements.

A thread

https://twitter.com/liorasolomon85/status/1458081997419687939

First off I realize that this is a very delicate subject, so I would ask anyone reading this to please put their pre-existing views on the subject at the door and read the whole thread before replying. Even through disagreements, it is still possible to have a polite conversation

Before I address the view of Orthodoxy towards Reform & Conservative movements (R&C), let me clarify what is meant by Orthodoxy: the traditional way Judaism has been observed & codified throughout history, from the mishna to the Shulchan Aruch & it’s immutable principles.

This umbrella term also includes the Sefaradi & Mizrachi world even though R&C were & are non-existent. Sefaradi and Mizrachi falls squarely & solely under the “Orthodoxy” umbrella. This is not something associated with only Eastern European Jews with black hats and black frocks.

Now, quite simply: a Jew is a Jew is a Jews. If you were born of a Jewish mother, or converted in a way determined by Halacha, you are Jewish. Even if you “convert” to another religion, are an atheist, a member of R&C or, even worse, an Eagles fan, you are still considered Jewish

Now it’s true that Halacha will treat someone who ignorant of Judaism, who is an atheist, who is a worshipper or legit heretic with different measures, but they are still considered Jewish, and while their views are not considered kosher, they themselves do not stop being Jewish.

That’s the view of “Orthodoxy”

Now before R&C, let’s have a thought experiment. Let’s imagine a Twitter account, let’s say something cute like “You Belong” started to make posts claiming that Judaism wants you to go out & bring people so we can convert them, how would you react?

Now most people might say ‘this is not Judaism!’

They would probably react the same way to an add for “Jews for Yoshke” or “Jews for Buddha” or “Jews for Mohammed”

But how do we determine what is acceptable and what is not?

Why is Modern Orthodoxy or Hasidism accepted universally as a Jewish movement nowadays (ideological fights notwithstanding) but Jewish messianics are not?

The answer is very simple: the 13 Principles of Faith of Judaism.

en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Maimonide…

(Please read before continuing)

To be missing one of the principles immediately puts a Jew’s ideology or movement out of the pale:

Jewish Messianism is rejected because of principles 2, 3 and 5.

Now the Karaites, for example, were rejected because of the 8th and 9th principles.

While there are Rabbinical differences of opinion (I’m acutely aware of that, being as I spend most of my day teaching Talmud and Jewish Law), there are two important things to keep in mind

1.Traditional Judaism agrees on 99.9% of subjects, we just vehemently argue on the 0.1%

2.The 13 ikkarim are universally agreed upon and were from before the days of the Rambam and up to the Haskalah, even if a few Rabbis tried to write the list slightly differently (but all agreed on the main points)

Now, how can I say we agree on 99.9% of things? Here’s an example: everyone agrees that carrying from one domain to another on Shabbat is forbidden. And yet the Talmud opens its discussion for many pages at the beginning (and later on in HaZorek) discussing that very issue!

That’s because the disagreements are on the level of “what constitutes an actual transfer from a domain to another? What if it’s thrown? What if two people do it? What if they do it at the same time? What if he didn’t intend to but did it accidentally, etc. but not fundamentals.

There are tons of varying opinions but ultimately the only discussions are about very specific details.

Judaism has always been a monolith; and there have always been movements that split because they were unhappy with the monolith and following those immutable principles.

The Essenes, the Sabbatheans, the Samaritans, the Sadducees, the Frankists, Xianity and even Islam, really….

Now in Germany in the 1800s a movement rose that wanted to split off from the way traditional Judaism was done.

This movement called itself ‘reform’ and labelled us ‘orthodoxy’, because we represented the “old ways” versus the new ways more in line with the times. This is why the rest of the religious world (including Sefaradim and Mizrachim not just Europeans) rejected the movement.

You can go on the main Reform website where they openly tell you that to be a member of their movement it’s entirely fine to be an atheist, and this is written by one of their senior clergy members.

This is clearly against the 1st principle, and this is far from the only one.

There are also similar problems from our perspective with the conservative movement

This is why those movements are rejected by the Orthodox/Sefaradi/Mizrachi world.

While the intellectual ideas of the movements are rejected, let me repeat once again:

A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. The mitsvah to love every Jew applies to every Jew, even if we disagree with their ideology or terrible choice in sports teams (specifically the Eagles).

Rejection of ideology should never, G-d forbid, be confused with rejection of the Jew who holds that ideology.

Just because we disagree with you doesn’t mean we don’t love you.

Am Israel Echad.