Maya Forstater Profile picture
Nov 16, 2021 31 tweets 6 min read Read on X
This is historic.

The end to #nodebate

@Nancy_M_K @stonewalluk @JayneOzanne Naomi Cunningham @legalfeminist @SexMattersOrg at Middle Temple LGBTQ Forum Image
@RobinAllenQC chairing opens:

The law must be clear and certain, comprehensive, enforceable and practical
@JayneOzanne about how she travelled the world seeking conversion therapy.

Conversion Therapy;

The silent phase - for me 20 years
- you struggle with a secret. You will be seen as damaged goods.

I had a breakdown.

I reached out to my church & went through therapy and prayer
It didn't work. I was blamed because it didn't work. God was not answering my prayer.

Stage 3: exorcism. I sought this out.

I considered taking my life
When I did come out many friends and family would not talk to me.

The most çommon is in a religious setting.

The most complete form of law is in Victoria Australia - all ages, legislate against spiritual abuse.
The practice must be aimed at an individual with a predetermined outcome. Any space with a predetermined purpose must be banned.
Consent: a loophole. I consented willingly.

We cannot allow a loophole.
@Nancy_M_K "Equality Law : why is it all so hard"

The UK campaign sits in human rights framework. Gathering pace away from viewing LGBTQ+ people not as ill
Recommends Victor Madrigals report. All calls of CT can cause intense humiliation. Creates self disgust. Begins with belief that someone is sick and needs to be treated. Suicidal ideation is higher
The balance of evidence is clear. All forms of CT cause harm.

It is very clear that talking forms of CT cause harm

(NB: this is not what the Coventry Uni research found)
Prohibit CT everywhere.
The rights based case: international govts are very concerned.
Is it happening. Here.
Trans people are twice as likely to be offered CT

NB: this was a self selected survey you can't draw this conclusion
The Coventry University research found the same thing. 🤔

MOU CT: an attempt to change sexual orientation or GI

It should be outcome neutral
There are 13 countries with a ban. Other countries considering bans.
What should it cover? Should cover all settings including religious and domestic setting. Supporting people coming to terms with their SO or GI should not be.
LGBTQ people are beautiful. We don't need to be changed
Naomi Cunningham - Dow we need the proposed law? Evidence of harm, convincing case that legislation can work, clear proposal. Debate
Debate is critical. This idea
To find the CEO of Stonewall on the same panel as me. So thank you Nancy
We don't know what the conversion theory survey responses mean.

Govt did not find evidence of harm. We don't have evidence
The case for legislation - not every harm can be put right with legislation.

The govt therapy proposal muddles being gay and gender dysphoria.

It is a medical condition.
Imagine you are a therapist. You have a gender non conforming child, who is expressing that they want to be the opposite sex. As a therapist you have to act
The proposed law provides a safeguard to allow therapists to act if if a child is questioning. But this child is not questioning, they are sure. The law would make it illegal.
Naomi talks about homophobic bullying and about Denton's report
Question from Kate Harris. How can you base good law on a feeling rather than a fact

Robin there is a debate over how we should amend the EqA protected characteristics.

This law is about oppressive behaviour
Nancy Kelly answers Kate Harris's question.

We don't have to use the language of "gender identity" can say "trans or non binary person" Image
Jayne Ozanne apologises to any trans gender people present and gets applause

Talks about child committing suicide

A child knows who they are. trans is not a medical issue
Question on consent. If I can consent to CT being gay is a lifestyle choice. How can I consent to greavious psychological harm.
Naomi. How can a child who hasn't yet developed though puberty consent to the grevious physical harm of puberty blockers and sterilisation? This will be be the scandal of our age.
Nancy: we are talking about two different things - the care package of a trans minor and the ban of conversion therapy.

The idea of consent is impossible when people can be cast out from their church and their community.
Jayne - Article 3 - states are under a duty to protect. All govts are obliged to protect.
@BluskyeAllison: how are you going to stop lesbians being harrased to accept transgender males into their dating pool when you are comparing lesbians to racists and anti Semites. It is coercion
We are talking about two seperate things lesbian sexuality and who people date. I don't think it is relevant to how we provide protection to young adults
Jayne Ozanne I don't think I understand the question. What we are here to do is to protect the right of people to chose.

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More from @MForstater

Jul 22
Peter Wilkins case exposes another public body (this one part of @DefenceHQ) that lost sight of the Equality Act and of civil service principles of impartiality and objectivity.

One colleague accused him of making a "threatening" FOI request when he tried to draw attention to @dstlmod 's Line Manager’s Guide.

The FOI was turned down but I tried again.
At first DSTL said they couldn't find the document.

I said "have another look, its on your intranet" and they located it.

Then they thought long and hard about whether they could withhold it on security grounds.

Finally they decided they couldn't

whatdotheyknow.com/request/line_m…
So here it is.

In all its glory.

How to create a hostile environment for gender critical staff and end up in employment tribunal.

whatdotheyknow.com/request/line_m…Image
Read 15 tweets
Jul 22
Judgment in the case of Peter Wilkins v @dstlmod finally published.

It is quite a read.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/687e55f1…Image
DSTL run the MOD research centre at Porton Down.

Lynn O'Donnell had writen a document entitled Line Managers Guide to supporting LGBT+ Identifying staff.

It included the old Stonewall definition of transphobia (which has now been withdrawn). Image
Image
The action starts not long after the Forstater EAT judgment.

Prof Sophie Scott is awarded the Faraday Prize and O'Donnell goes onto DSTL's "distillery" chat forum to say 'tis a pity she's a TERF....and linked GC views to rise in violence against LGBT people

Peter Wilkins flags this as slanderImage
Image
Read 24 tweets
Jul 11
The High Court has granted an anonymity order in relation to three individual "trans and intersex" claimants in the Good Law Project's case against EHRC for its interim update.

judiciary.uk/judgments/good…Image
Any information possibly identifying the claimants has been withheld from the public domain. Image
Also, somewhat oddly, the Good Law project has redacted the names of its legal team members in publishing the facts and grounds. Image
Read 16 tweets
Jul 5
Stonewall has had another rebrand.

Gone is the shortlived EHRC teal and Pepto-Bismol pink theme and in comes a "going back to our roots" and grown up purple... Image
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Image
The old flag is flying prominently Image
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Read 10 tweets
Jul 3
The nomination of Mary-Ann Stephenson as new chair of the EHRC brought the witch hunters out.

Stephenson has a PhD in equality law. She is Director of the Women’s Budget Group, and has been director of the Fawcett Society, chair of the Early Education and Childcare Coalition and a board member of Coventry Rape and Sexual Abuse Centre.Image
A bunch of charity CEOs (some of whom are part of "Equally Ours" with her) wrote a letter saying darkly she "previously supported views seen at odds with inclusivity for all" Image
There was a petition accusing her of making "anti-trans statements" and "association with groups advocating for the curtailment of trans people's human rights"

docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAI…Image
Read 30 tweets
Jun 3
In the case of Peter Wilkins v @dstlmod there is a bit about a "threatening FOI" Image
Wilkins had requested disclosure of DSTL's strategy on gender identity and gender expression.

The request was refused because it was anonymous. Image
After the judgment I repeated the request Image
Read 7 tweets

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