Good morning from New York.
The third day of Ghislaine Maxwell's trial begins this morning with continuing testimony by "Jane," the first woman prosecutors described at the very start of openings.
ICYMI: Her grueling testimony yesterday, @lawcrimenews lawandcrime.com/live-trials/gh…
The third day of Ghislaine Maxwell's trial begins this morning with continuing testimony by "Jane," the first woman prosecutors described at the very start of openings.
ICYMI: Her grueling testimony yesterday, @lawcrimenews lawandcrime.com/live-trials/gh…
Pre-trial proceedings have been underway.
"Jane" testified yesterday that she was living in a "pool house" after meeting Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein at camp.
Maxwell's defense counsel are questioning that testimony about her family's financial difficulties.
"Jane" testified yesterday that she was living in a "pool house" after meeting Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein at camp.
Maxwell's defense counsel are questioning that testimony about her family's financial difficulties.
As "Jane" has denied the defense attorney's suggestion, the parties are arguing whether the line of questioning is permissible.
After yesterday's testimony by Jeffrey Epstein's pilot, the government released certain exhibits entered into evidence.
Here, Jeffrey Epstein stands in front of his Gulfstream G2B aircraft. He had three. The one that has been dubbed the "Lolita Express" was the Boeing.
Here, Jeffrey Epstein stands in front of his Gulfstream G2B aircraft. He had three. The one that has been dubbed the "Lolita Express" was the Boeing.
Some crucial elements of the testimony of the pilot, Lawrence Visoski, for understanding the ongoing testimony of "Jane":
Visoski recalled meeting "Jane" in approximately the mid-to-late '90s.
"Mr. Epstein brought her to the cockpit and introduced her to me," he said.
Visoski recalled meeting "Jane" in approximately the mid-to-late '90s.
"Mr. Epstein brought her to the cockpit and introduced her to me," he said.
The pilot said his impression of her was as a "mature woman with some piercing powder blue eyes."
Visoski said he remembered her as a passenger from Epstein's trip to Traverse City, Mich., for visiting Interlochen, the arts academy for "gifted children."
Visoski said he remembered her as a passenger from Epstein's trip to Traverse City, Mich., for visiting Interlochen, the arts academy for "gifted children."
Visoski confirmed some of the high-profile passengers on Epstein's flights, including Bill Clinton, Donald Trump ('more than once, I believe'), Prince Andrew, Itzhak Perlman and others.
(Pictured: Inside the Boeing)
(Pictured: Inside the Boeing)
Visoski claimed yesterday never to have seen "sexual activity" on the plane or girls he thought were unaccompanied minors—though he testified he did see "Jane" and Virginia Roberts (aka, Virginia Giuffre).
"All rise."
The jury is entering.
"Jane" is in the witness box.
The jury is entering.
"Jane" is in the witness box.
Maxwell's defense attorney Laura Menninger starts her second day of cross-examination with questioning about Interlochen, the arts academy where "Jane" met Epstein and Maxwell.
By the way, about the "witness box":
Since the age of COVID-19, witnesses have been testifying in federal court inside a Plexiglas booth so they can safely remove their masks — so they can be grilled in accordance with the Sixth Amendment right to confront one's accuser.
Since the age of COVID-19, witnesses have been testifying in federal court inside a Plexiglas booth so they can safely remove their masks — so they can be grilled in accordance with the Sixth Amendment right to confront one's accuser.
—Part of that is observing the facial expressions of the witness.
Menninger tries to undermine "Jane's" account of her difficult family life through school records at Interlochen, like an application describing her "loving family."
Yesterday, "Jane" testified that her mother instructed her not to discuss her feelings and family.
Yesterday, "Jane" testified that her mother instructed her not to discuss her feelings and family.
Menninger pivots to "Jane's" first meeting with Epstein and Maxwell in 1994, at the Interlochen arts academy.
The defense attorney says that she has given different accounts of the meeting. An ongoing defense strategy is undermining the women's memories of decades-old events.
The defense attorney says that she has given different accounts of the meeting. An ongoing defense strategy is undermining the women's memories of decades-old events.
Menninger asks if "Jane" remembered testimony being by herself at Jeffrey Epstein's house in Palm Beach.
"Jane" agrees.
The attorney says that she told the government something different and begins reading a document —
— drawing a prosecution objection.
"Jane" agrees.
The attorney says that she told the government something different and begins reading a document —
— drawing a prosecution objection.
Menninger says that she told the government that she was with her mother and brothers in the beginning.
"Jane" says she doesn't remember that.
"Jane" says she doesn't remember that.
"Jane," as the defense attorney tries to undermine her memory:
"Memory's not linear."
"Memory's not linear."
Q: The dinner you had at your house was prior to any abuse.
A: That's not true.
Menninger tries to read from a document, sparking an objection from the government.
"Your honor," the prosecutor says, she objects to Menninger "testifying."
A: That's not true.
Menninger tries to read from a document, sparking an objection from the government.
"Your honor," the prosecutor says, she objects to Menninger "testifying."
Long sidebar.
(Jargon explanation: A sidebar is when the parties confer privately with the judge out of earshot of the jurors, press and public.)
(Jargon explanation: A sidebar is when the parties confer privately with the judge out of earshot of the jurors, press and public.)
Those are usually to resolve evidentiary issues, and in this trial, they've largely been used to protect the anonymity of the witnesses.
Sometimes those conferences are captured in transcripts, except when they are about sealed matters.
Sometimes those conferences are captured in transcripts, except when they are about sealed matters.
Menninger says "Jane" does not recall whether Maxwell ever touched her.
"That's not true," "Jane" says.
Menninger asks whether she told the government she could not recall that.
"I don't recall."
"That's not true," "Jane" says.
Menninger asks whether she told the government she could not recall that.
"I don't recall."
Menninger asks whether she told the government Maxwell never watched her perform oral sex on Epstein.
"That's correct," "Jane" says.
Same answer when asked to confirm she told the government Maxwell never used sex toys or a vibrator on her.
"That's correct," "Jane" says.
Same answer when asked to confirm she told the government Maxwell never used sex toys or a vibrator on her.
Remember:
"Jane's" testimony implicating Maxwell, not only in grooming her for Epstein's abuse, but participating in it.
In these exchanges—which I'll await the transcript for in further detail because exact phrasing matters—the defense attorney attacks the crux of that.
"Jane's" testimony implicating Maxwell, not only in grooming her for Epstein's abuse, but participating in it.
In these exchanges—which I'll await the transcript for in further detail because exact phrasing matters—the defense attorney attacks the crux of that.
Cross-examination resumes:
Menninger pivots to the first time "Jane" says Epstein abused her. She testified that's when Epstein masturbated on her in the Palm Beach pool house.
The lawyer says she told the government in 2019 that it was in New York.
"That is not correct": Jane
Menninger pivots to the first time "Jane" says Epstein abused her. She testified that's when Epstein masturbated on her in the Palm Beach pool house.
The lawyer says she told the government in 2019 that it was in New York.
"That is not correct": Jane
Menninger is confronting her with notes from unrecorded interviews with the government.
"Jane" has said repeatedly during cross-ex that the notes were inaccurate.
"This is just someone jotting down notes," she said.
"Jane" has said repeatedly during cross-ex that the notes were inaccurate.
"This is just someone jotting down notes," she said.
A legal explainer here courtesy of @MitchellEpner, an ex-federal prosecutor who led intake on sex trafficking cases for the District of N.J.
It goes into the admissibility of alleged prior inconsistent statements in government interviews — the heart of this line of questioning.
It goes into the admissibility of alleged prior inconsistent statements in government interviews — the heart of this line of questioning.
There's a lot of dispute about whether the notes suggest "Jane" told the government she went to see the "Lion King" on Broadway with Maxwell in New York;
* if so, when they purportedly saw it;
* and whether "Jane's" purported chronology conflicted with its opening date.
* if so, when they purportedly saw it;
* and whether "Jane's" purported chronology conflicted with its opening date.
Q: You don't recall any abuse happening when you first came to New Mexico, correct?
A: That is not correct.
A: That is not correct.
Under the rules of evidence, these notes can be shown to the witness to refresh her recollection because they cannot be entered as exhibits as verbatim transcripts (which they are not).
Menninger is systematically contrasting "Jane's" testimony what these records reflect.
Menninger is systematically contrasting "Jane's" testimony what these records reflect.
"Jane" says she was never asked to recruit other girls or directed to have sex with any of Epstein's associates.
Q: "Mr. Epstein introduced you to Donald Trump, correct?"
She says yes.
She says yes.
Pressed by Menninger, "Jane" agrees that she said Epstein drove her Mar-a-Lago in a dark green car when she was 14.
This line of questioning is not explored much further.
Menninger pivots to unrelated allegations of group sexualized massages.
Menninger pivots to unrelated allegations of group sexualized massages.
Q: You remember Prince Andrew being on a flight with you?
Yes.
Yes.
Lunch recess.
To be absolutely clear, she did not accuse Trump or Andrew of any wrongdoing on the witness stand. She only answered those questions as reflected in the tweets above.
To be absolutely clear, she did not accuse Trump or Andrew of any wrongdoing on the witness stand. She only answered those questions as reflected in the tweets above.
During the recess, I spoke to @KenneyBaden at the @LawCrimeNetwork about some of what we've seen so far at trial.
Take a listen.
Take a listen.
https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetwork/status/1466115978706800642?s=20
Cross-examination resumes:
Q: You said that you were raised in a household where you'd get in trouble if you said something?
"Jane" asked for clarification about "something."
Q: Something personal.
She replies yes.
Q: You said that you were raised in a household where you'd get in trouble if you said something?
"Jane" asked for clarification about "something."
Q: Something personal.
She replies yes.
Menninger asks if she recalled telling her mother about a teacher pulling her hair.
"Jane" answers yes.
Asked if she recalled her mother filing a lawsuit against the teacher, "Jane" says she didn't know that.
"Jane" answers yes.
Asked if she recalled her mother filing a lawsuit against the teacher, "Jane" says she didn't know that.
Showing her papers, Menninger asked if they refresh her recollection that her mother sued her teacher.
"No, I had no idea my mother did this," responds "Jane."
"No, I had no idea my mother did this," responds "Jane."
"Jane" says that she met Mike Wallace with Jeffrey Epstein in New York.
Menninger says that "Jane" said that was at Mike Wallace's 80th birthday party?
"Jane" agrees.
"Jane" agrees.
There are no allegations made about Wallace, either, except a suggestion made by the defense attorney that the date doesn't match up with the account.
Earlier in cross-ex—
Q: You consider yourself an actor?
A: Yes.
Q: An actor portrays a fictional character?
A: Yes.
[...]
Q: You've been an actor for a very long time?
A: Yes.
Q: You consider yourself an actor?
A: Yes.
Q: An actor portrays a fictional character?
A: Yes.
[...]
Q: You've been an actor for a very long time?
A: Yes.
Q: “You’re able to cry on command.”
A: “No, not always. That not really how it works.”
A: “No, not always. That not really how it works.”
Cross-ex ends.
Redirect begins.
Redirect begins.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Alison Moe to "Jane"—
Q: Have I or any other prosecutor told you what to say on the witness stand?
A: No.
She asks "Jane" what they told her to say.
A: "Just tell the truth."
Q: Have I or any other prosecutor told you what to say on the witness stand?
A: No.
She asks "Jane" what they told her to say.
A: "Just tell the truth."
Asked whether she was able to tell all of the details in her initial meeting with the government, "Jane" emotionally says:
"Because I was standing in a roomful of strangers and telling them the most shameful, deepest secrets that I've been carrying around with me my whole life."
"Because I was standing in a roomful of strangers and telling them the most shameful, deepest secrets that I've been carrying around with me my whole life."
She says a reporter "blackmailed" her:
"He said that court documents with my name was unredacted, and the Epstein 'little black book' was out—"
The defense makes a hearsay objection.
"He said that court documents with my name was unredacted, and the Epstein 'little black book' was out—"
The defense makes a hearsay objection.
The prosecutor goes about it a different way, eliciting her to testify that the reporter threatened to expose her if she didn't speak to him.
She says she was worried for her career if the information became known.
She says she was worried for her career if the information became known.
Asked by the prosecutor about the difference is between acting and testifying, she responds:
She responds: Acting on TV is not real, and testifying in court is.
She responds: Acting on TV is not real, and testifying in court is.
Asked why she remembers the first time she says Jeffrey Epstein sexually abused her more clearly than other events, she responds: "Because it's the beginning of when my life would change forever."
Q: How old were you when you first touched Jeffrey Epstein's penis?
A: 14.
Q: How old were you when you first touched Jeffrey Epstein's penis?
A: 14.
The prosecutor asks about defense attacks of the $5 million settlement she got from the Epstein victims fund, of which she received roughly $2.9 million.
Q: Jane, in your own words, can you tell the jury what that money meant to you?
(She cries, wiping her eyes with a tissue)
Q: Jane, in your own words, can you tell the jury what that money meant to you?
(She cries, wiping her eyes with a tissue)
"I wish I never received that money in the first place because of what happened," she says.
Her testimony concludes.
Afternoon recess.
Her testimony concludes.
Afternoon recess.
The next witness, "Matt," is also testifying under a pseudonym because he's "Jane's" ex-boyfriend; disclosing his name could identify her.
From her testimony:
Q. While you were together, did you ever tell Matt that you'd been sexually abused by Maxwell and Epstein?
A. Yes.
From her testimony:
Q. While you were together, did you ever tell Matt that you'd been sexually abused by Maxwell and Epstein?
A. Yes.
"All rise."
The jury enters.
The jury enters.
Judge Nathan says courtroom sketch artists should not precisely draw "Matt's" features, either. (Sketches of "Jane" were obscured at the face.)
He's called to the witness box, is sworn in, and explains the use of the pseudonym.
He's called to the witness box, is sworn in, and explains the use of the pseudonym.
He tells the jury he's been employed on and off as an actor on a TV show for the past 15 years.
Q: "How do you know Jane?"
A: "She's my ex-girlfriend."
She says they were together between 2006 to 2014, approximately — moving into together one year into the relationship.
Q: "How do you know Jane?"
A: "She's my ex-girlfriend."
She says they were together between 2006 to 2014, approximately — moving into together one year into the relationship.
"Matt" testifies that "Jane" initially referred to Epstein as her "godfather," who helped pay her family's bills and was "looking out for her family."
Q: Did there come a time when she told you why Jeffrey Epstein gave her money?
A: Yes.
Asked about what she said, he replies: "She never went into detail. She just said that it wasn't pretty."
A: Yes.
Asked about what she said, he replies: "She never went into detail. She just said that it wasn't pretty."
Q: Did she ever use the word 'massage'?
Defense: Objection—leading
Nathan: Overruled. I'll allow it.
A: Yes.
Defense: Objection—leading
Nathan: Overruled. I'll allow it.
A: Yes.
Did she ever tell you that there was a woman in the house?
A: Yes.
Q: Did she tell you that the woman in the house made her feel comfortable?
A: Yes.
A: Yes.
Q: Did she tell you that the woman in the house made her feel comfortable?
A: Yes.
"Matt," about a comment by "Jane":
"She'd just say to me: 'Matt,' the money wasn't fucking free."
"She'd just say to me: 'Matt,' the money wasn't fucking free."
Ex-federal prosecutor @MitchellEpner, who previously led intake in sex trafficking prosecutions in the District of N.J., offers his analysis on the legal backdrop of "Matt's" testimony.
Maxwell's opened the door, he says.
Maxwell's opened the door, he says.
Extremely fast testimony.
Prosecution wraps shortly.
Maxwell's lawyer, Bobbi Sternheim, declines to cross-examine him.
Prosecution wraps shortly.
Maxwell's lawyer, Bobbi Sternheim, declines to cross-examine him.
Next witness:
Daniel Besselsen, assistant VP of finance at Interlochen, the arts academy at the center of Jane's story.
Daniel Besselsen, assistant VP of finance at Interlochen, the arts academy at the center of Jane's story.
Besselsen confirms Epstein was a donor to Interlochen, describes the "Jeffrey Epstein Scholarship Lodge."
A photo of the lodge is entered into evidence.
A photo of the lodge is entered into evidence.
Proceedings are adjourned for the day.
Look for a story on the afternoon session @lawcrimenews—and more details that didn't make the thread later.
• • •
Missing some Tweet in this thread? You can try to
force a refresh
