Thread by @swardley

X : Did you see the EC is trying to describe natural gas as green - euronews.com/green/2022/02/…
Me : Oh, yes. The hydrogen problem.
X : Eh?
Me : Most auto companies are in a pickle with threats from Tesla and Chinese players who have captured the materials market for batteries ...

Me : ... the unsurprising result is those auto companies are trying to sell a hydrogen story (e.g. fuel cells). Let us ignore the economics of this (not good) and just focus on the sustainability angle. You probably think we get hydrogen from electrolysis of water?
X : And?

Me : Well, last time I looked that was 0.1% of the market. Most of the market for production of hydrogen is natural gas. So, if you're planning an EV story based on sustainability / climate, can't get yourself into batteries (because much of supply chain is captured) then ...

... it's going to be awkward when people start realising their "hydrogen" cars are actually powered by natural gas i.e. we take hydrogen out and put carbon into the atmosphere. Hence EC says "natural gas is green" means auto players can say their cars are green ... for a time ...

Me : .. but steam-methane reforming is hardly green.
X : steam-methane reforming?
Me : energy.gov/eere/fuelcells…
X : You can produce hydrogen from oil?
Me : Oh, yes and it is. That's another problem.

X : So basically, keep extracting oil and gas, turn it into hydrogen and dump the carbon into the atmosphere, claim your hydrogen cars are green because it only produces water?
Me : Well ... an industry that has a history of fiddling software to cheat environmental tests?

X : But it could be green, if the hydrogen was produced by electrolysis.
Me : If the power used was renewable. But using renewable energy to produce hydrogen from water, transporting hydrogen to create fuel cell to produce electricity versus transporting renewable electricity?

Me : I'll let you guess how the economics on that stack up.

X : Not good?
Me : The electricity -> hydrogen -> electricity equation alone isn't exactly great. I'm sure this all sounds marvellous in powerpoint presentations where no-one asks awkward questions.

Loved this video on the scale of "climate promises" in the industry - … (H/T @lizthegrey)

X : The hydrogen story is just bs?
Me : That depends upon your perspective.
X : Perspective?
Me : How influencial traditional auto makers are in your nation and how many shares do you have?

X : You don't agree with carbon capture?
Me : Oh, I do. We have some of the most advanced technology imaginable when it comes to carbon capture. Self sustaining, distributed neural nets, renewable and self correcting.
X : ?
Me : Trees. We should allow more to grow.

X : How can we solve this?
Me : You mean - how can we mitigate this? Plenty of ways but first we need to understand the system we're operating in.
X : ?
Me : Go watch Don't Look Up, it's the best documentary I've seen in decades on Western political and economic reality.