Good morning & welcome to the medical practitioners tribunal, today dealing with the request to adjourn the hearing to consider the fitness to practice of Dr Michael Webberley, co-founder of Gender GP.
The panel is currently private. I'll be called when they're ready.
For now, we know GMC counsel are Simon Jackson QC (SJ) and his junior Ryan Donohue (RD).
Note: RD was counsel for GMC in Dr Harrop case
We don't know if MW has counsel today or if he'll represent himself yet
Further abbrevs:
GMC: General Medical Council
MPTS: Medical Practioner Tribunal Service
MW: Michael Webberley
VE: Voluntary Erasure
GGP: Gender GP
I have just been told that the 'in camera' (private) meeting is still continuing and it may be some time until I am called.
While we wait, FYI, I've driven 180miles today as GMC & MPTS have refused our remote access request. @tribunaltweets are a self funding team of citizen journalists, dedicated to bringing #OpenJustice. It's frustrating other reporters can observe online. We continue to request.
@tribunaltweets I have now been moved to a smaller waiting room, hopefully it'll not be long now until we start.
@tribunaltweets The Chair is discussing the adjournment request and has determined the case should NOTBbe adjourned and will proceed. Written reasons will be proved for the decision and available to the public.
@tribunaltweets MW's counsel is RBS
RBS: bearing in mind the length of time, the tribunal commit its decision to writing so it can be considered in high court. It would be surprising if a decision to adjourn is made without a written determination.
@tribunaltweets RBS: Partic. In absence of MW.and why the case wasn't adjourned
Chair: we acknowledge it'd be better for written determination however we can't ignore that 8 working says have been occupied and didn't start til 12 today. We hoped to start at 11.
Chair: the amount if time alloted to the case is because its necessary, the only reason we haven't given written detail yet is we understand on current availability of experts, unless they start giving evidence this week.
Chair: we will give a determination by Wednesday, if we were to proceed in MW absence we could anticipate having the experts reschedule and conclude in sufficient time. We can then be confident we can complete the full proceedings.
SJ: thank you chair. In terms of the decision of putting determination in writing, now the issue has been raised subject to this observation. RBS has not said the decision has been made to seek leave to pursue the matter, in terms of appealing the adjournment denial.
SJ: High Court will need to see written reasons and tribunal needs to do that. In terms of timetabling, the enquires GMC have made, the plan would have been, the first expert guve evidence tomorrow. The opening can only be completed once proof of service and proceeding in absence
SJ: the second expert, Psychologist is available and another expert is only next available late march. If one looks at prospect the tribunal does written determination by tomorrow the case can be opened and start with Dr Kieran on Friday
SJ: GMC has already done a lot of work already to reach stage 1 determination. There will be a lot of time spent looking at all of the charges.
SJ: if we have a table schedule with all evidence, a working document, not an advanced document due to where we are at. That can still be distilling and finalised and that will save tribunal time. Primary objective to complete hearing, second to get to end of stage 1.
SJ: our subs are early determination, proceed in absence, then call Dr Keiran and Dr Quinton next week and make speedy process thereafter.
Chair: evidence matrix will make us be able to identify specific issues and subject to decisions and be very useful
Chair: are you confident both experts can conclude evidence within a day, on assumption MW will NOT be participating.
SJ: gMC are optimistic. Position is the tribunal has read the bundles. Including 600 pages of expert evidence and further Patient records
SJ: you'll have all info distilled and they're cross referenced. I'm in a position wherevI'm focussing on what additional questions to experts in chief. The Tribunal must think about how much time you need. Little to be gained by counsel asking Qs when they've got all info.
Chair asks colleagues if they'd like to ask anything.
Chair: The tribunal will consider submissions and applications made by MW, I suggest we resume in public at 2.15pm. We desire to conduct the proceedings in public so far as we are able to.
PART 7. Day 2. Afternoon. DG (AHRC) closing.
DG: Oral submissions of AHRC complement written submission. Will take them in a classical way issue by issue. LH contends that there is a community of individuals who don’t want the applicant to have an exemption. He includes the AHRC.
That is not the position of the AHRC, which has taken care to be impartial in responding to A case and respecting its statutory responsibilities. AHRC has expressed no view on what the outcome of this appeal should be, and has not said what the A can and cannot do in the tribunal
Has not sought the assimilation of the A. Its role in the tribunal is to commend to it an interpretation of the SDA that ultimately goes to fulfilling the purposes in the SDA. A's case has been clearly to state that it does seek to discriminate against trans women.
PART 6. Day 2, morning.
M How are we going for time?
LH I need till around 1.15 for closing statements
We are very grateful for accommodating LAG supporters in the room.
LH [CLOSING STATEMENT] simple points 1/ LAG means no harm to anyone, 2/LAG wants the same human rights as offered to anyone, 3/ LAG is not seeking resources or anything else, 4/ there are others that do not want that to happen and that includes the AHRC.
Closing 2 topics.
What has come out of evidence during cross examination
And legal issues emerging from the Statement of Facts, Issues and Contentions (SOFIC).
1/ LAG vs AHRC Tuesday 3rd September DG closing submission part b [Part 8 overall?] DH: paragraph 2 it’s around 31 32 there is also a para 82 87 M: seeks to clarify if this is in the act or is DG’s argument ...
2/ DH: you will have heard CE of CA about that line of questioning about LBGTQI who are born female and are lesbian in her evidence that sex is binary and immutable so people DFAB will then take the gender ID of TIM or female and that is ...
3/ CA’s definition of TG. I then asked about women and CA’s evidence is where you get in to some parts that we would like the opposition to discuss some people say that person isn’t a L or that if she IDs as a L then she is a L or we cld say she ...
DAY 2. Part 5.
M: enters the room: discussion about Dr Blake over whether she is required for CE so her evidence stands as is.[discussion about procedure]
LH: So that is not the provenance of the witness
M: I look forward to that, you are aware there is a slight contradiction with the RA position. What is the difference between written and oral evidence?
LH: We need to assist you with [interpreting evidence]. So sometimes expert evidence can inform context, but we are talking about law, and I don't even know what the [missed] because of TvG [missed]
Part 4, Day 1, afternoon. Dr Elena Jeffreys (EJ) appears on videolink.
Introductions and affirmation of witness
DG introduction can we please start with your full name and address
EJ Gives details
DG did you provide an expert report for this proceeding?
EJ Yes
DG Date of report Have you read report or anything you want to add to it ?
EJ Lesbian space project I've heard other versions of what haopened since I submitted the report but none of it I can verify.
DG Member I take it you dont need the details of that?
M asks for clarification
. EJ points out where she's pointed out the lesbian space project in [Sydney]
DG Anything else you'd like to add
EJ no
PART 3, day 1, morning. CA cross examination. M asked CA ‘what are your pronouns’. Peal of laughter from audience.
Clerk (James): CA took oath on affirmation. CA stated that having difficulty hearing, asked if there was amplification. M said he would try to speak up.
LH: asked CA for full name and address. CA answered.
LH: two witness statements? One dated 21 july 2024 and second reply dated 28 august 2024. No changes? CA no. LH asked for those statements be her evidence in chief.
M to CA: don’t feel that you are being cross examined. We just seek to become as familiar as possible with the issues. Your material is quite extensive so some clarification is useful.