🧵Here we go!
It's the 14th Amendment Challenge to the candidacy of Marjorie Taylor Greene's candidacy
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It's the 14th Amendment Challenge to the candidacy of Marjorie Taylor Greene's candidacy
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"This case has been proceeding at a very rapid rate," says Judge Charles Beaudrot. He is now reading into the record his decisions on evidentiary matters based on a conference they had yesterday.
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Lots of evidence admitted into the record:
For plaintiffs: 6 videos, congressional record, and 20 or more exhibits that he did not identify
For Respondents: 7 unspecified items
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For plaintiffs: 6 videos, congressional record, and 20 or more exhibits that he did not identify
For Respondents: 7 unspecified items
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By the way, this is a hearing before an administrative law judge in the Georgia Office of Administrative hearings in Atlanta.
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When he started the hearing, judge set out schedule which sounds like a full day with some short breaks here and there including for lunch.
Going over additional items that he did not mention which comes in impeachment video, Pence Jan. 6 letter, and a video of Greene.
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Going over additional items that he did not mention which comes in impeachment video, Pence Jan. 6 letter, and a video of Greene.
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Judge said "the lawyers in this case are doing an excellent job and they are under great pressure" and thanked them.
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We are starting with opening statements, starting with plaintiff's counsel, @ronfein
"This is a solemn occasion. This is not politics, this is not theater. This is a serious case."
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"This is a solemn occasion. This is not politics, this is not theater. This is a serious case."
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Fein begins by talking about the Civil War and mentions how Professor Gerard Magliocca will testify about that era. He said the Whiskey Rebellion and Shays's Rebellion were different from the Civil War, but those are the kinds that occurred on Jan. 6.
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Violent assault on Capitol had multiple purposes including capturing and killing speaker of the house, VP, and other members of Congress.
And purpose was to prevent certification of the electoral votes for Biden and disruption for peaceful transfer of power.
Unprecedented
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And purpose was to prevent certification of the electoral votes for Biden and disruption for peaceful transfer of power.
Unprecedented
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I am blown away by how great @ronfein is doing. Full disclosure. I am on the legal advisory board for @FSFP, so I know how smart and thorough he is. But you are all meeting him now.
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"You'll hear about these different figures. . . there will be direct evidence, and there will also be inferential evidence. . . including coded language."
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Fein says, the way insurrections are organized today are less with detailed military plans and battle and more through social media and mass media. The communications have multiple layers.
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Hashtags and memes can mean that words that could have a benign meaning can also carry a different significance to people swimming in that subculture.
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💯Fein says "The most powerful witness . . . is Marjorie Taylor Greene herself." Both on the stand and videos.
"In some cases, the mask falls and she shows us what she intended."
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"In some cases, the mask falls and she shows us what she intended."
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He says the MTG's role was not to smash windows. She had a different role. She said on January 5th that this would "be our 1776 moment."
"It turned out to be an 1861 moment," said Fein. She urged and helped facilitate violent resistance to our own government.
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"It turned out to be an 1861 moment," said Fein. She urged and helped facilitate violent resistance to our own government.
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This triggers disqualification. She instigated an insurrection, said Fein
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Now it's time for Greene's attorney James Bopp Jr. to deliver his opening statement. He says this is "a court of law" and complains that there was not a word about the 14th amendment.
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Bobb says that this candidacy challenge "cannot be decided by this court" as it has federal constitutional implications.
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Bobb asks when can she raise her Constitutional defenses?
Note: He can do it now. Right?
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Note: He can do it now. Right?
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He is calling this "irrevocable harm". He says "voters have the right to vote of the candidate of their choice unless there is very compelling legal, not rhetorical justification for that, which is not present here."
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Bobb said that First amendment rights are at stake, not just right ot vote, but her protected political speech. "That's unconstitutional and should not be allowed" he said. And this is criminal, he said.
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Bopp said that a candidate challenge is permitted under Georgia law when a candidate is not qualified to be a candidate or not qualified to take office.
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He admits that a challenge under the 14th Amendment goes to that second type of challenge, that she would not be qualified to take the oath because of an insurrection.
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Bopp said that it's up to Congress not to the state to decide that.
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Bopp now reads from Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
Here's that text
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Here's that text
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Bobb says this can only happen in January of 2023 if she is re-elected (in November).
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He is now arguing that the only time frame that matters is after Majorie Taylor Greene took the oath of office in January 3, 2021. Anything before is irrelevant. Unless a direct admission of her intention to engage in insurrection or rebellion after January 3.
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Taking a quick break. Back in a few minutes
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he is now saying that the word engage means conduct and cannot mean speech.
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He is now saying that under Brandenburg nothing that Greene said qualifies as incitement and is protected speech.
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Also now says she is also protected by freedom of assembly under the first amendment
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He is now making a mockery of the voters’ case saying a heckler in the Congressional gallery would be charged with insurrection if there was a delayed proceedings.
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Bopp said that people not including Greene unlawfully entered the Capitol.
there is now someone coming into work with the sound. Because there is this really high-pitched buzz.
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there is now someone coming into work with the sound. Because there is this really high-pitched buzz.
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Bopp concedes that breaking into the Capitol could be engaging in conduct under the meaning of the law
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He said she met with Trump on January 5 because she believed in election fraud.
Said during attack she (tweeted or texted) that people should remain peaceful.
Bopp said she was fearful and a victim
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Said during attack she (tweeted or texted) that people should remain peaceful.
Bopp said she was fearful and a victim
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First witness is Professor Magliocca. Before that another lawyer for Georgia voters is reading stipulated facts into the record.
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Questions are designed to qualify this witness’s expertise to opine on the meaning of the 14th Amendment.
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Counsel for Marjorie Taylor Greene wants to disqualify this expert witness.
Judge is confused about scope of the Professor’s testimony.
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Judge is confused about scope of the Professor’s testimony.
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Judge will not entertain testimony on meaning of statutes. However he will allow history. Says legal interpretation belongs in briefing. Will allow for objections.
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Fein is asking the professor to read some text from a a 19th Century dictionary projected on a large screen suspended from the wall. Judge said document speaks for itself. He said he is indulging Fein.
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Judge announced a break until 11. When people cheered, he chastised him and said “this is not a show.”
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While we wait for the hearing to resume, @cspan is live-streaming @ronfein’s stellar opening statement
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We are back. Fein had a few more questions for the professor. Section 3 of the 14th Amendment history continues.
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Section 3 was used to remove state and local officials from office and to excuse people from office who participated in Confederacy.
Then Congress passed law to give amnesty to ex-Confederates.
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Then Congress passed law to give amnesty to ex-Confederates.
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Judge stopped questioning by Fein asking the professor to opine on whether storming Capitol back then would be insurrection.
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We have Marjorie Taylor Greene sworn in
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We have Fein’s co-counsel cross-examining Greene
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If someone broke the law to interfere with counting the electoral votes makes someone an enemy of the Constitution. She says she doesn’t know. But she says hundreds broke law
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Question read back. Asked if you had knowledge that someone was going to unlawfully interfere with counting vote you would have to stop. Bopp objected.
Attorney rephrasesh
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Attorney rephrasesh
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Objection is because she’s not being questioned for violating her oath. Goes to state of mind though so judge will allow later if foundation laid.
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Asked whether she used social media to communicate with constituents. She said yes. But her personal Twitter account was suspended she said
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On the screen now is a tweet from December 3, 2020.
Bopp objects to this line of questioning on First Amendment grounds.
Judge allows questions
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Bopp objects to this line of questioning on First Amendment grounds.
Judge allows questions
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She was saying she was looking for a Senator to join her and Brooks. Tweet says votes for Biden were fraudulent.
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Judge is pissed. “This is an evidentiary hearing” not political theater or the Supreme Court
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Bopp objects to admission. Judge says tweet “is in for what it’s worth.”
Now another tweet
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Now another tweet
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She used a phrase #fightfortrump
She said I was not asking them to actively engage in violence
She did not answer whether she wanted Congress not to certify Biden.
When asked she said “yes” that she believed Biden had not won
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She said I was not asking them to actively engage in violence
She did not answer whether she wanted Congress not to certify Biden.
When asked she said “yes” that she believed Biden had not won
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A brief break to fix technical issue. Ten minutes. That appears to be Matt Gaetz in the courtroom
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We are back on the record.
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Tweet from December 19, 2020. She said “I can’t see real well” so they enlarged.
It’s a tweet of Epoch Times story about Trump saying protest would be wild.
She said “I don’t remember tweeting it” for that specific reason.
Is the word “peaceful” in there?
No.
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It’s a tweet of Epoch Times story about Trump saying protest would be wild.
She said “I don’t remember tweeting it” for that specific reason.
Is the word “peaceful” in there?
No.
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She doesn’t recall a tweet from January. He asked if anyone tweeted anything without her permission. She said no one does that. Yet she says she doesn’t know
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She denied ever saying Pelosi was a traitor to the country.
She is shown a late January CNN article. Page 4. Greene says “She’s a traitor to our country. She’s guilty of treason.” Etc “It’s a crime punishable by death.”
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She is shown a late January CNN article. Page 4. Greene says “She’s a traitor to our country. She’s guilty of treason.” Etc “It’s a crime punishable by death.”
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She said she didn’t remember “saying all of this” but said she disagreed about her view on the border.
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When asked if she advocates violence against political enemies. She said no.
Asked whether she “liked” a post that said a “bullet to the head” for Pelosi. She said she doesn’t know if she liked it or if someone else did.
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Asked whether she “liked” a post that said a “bullet to the head” for Pelosi. She said she doesn’t know if she liked it or if someone else did.
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She denies knowing “for sure” if Pelosi’s office was invaded. Just saw on news.
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Sorry — I’m on a brief break
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Bopp is suggesting 2019 is when Marjorie Taylor Greene was so far back it might as well be when she was in high school.
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Greene accuses counsel of being a conspiracy theorist
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Cilli (co-counsel with Fein) is preparing to show a video of Marjorie Taylor Greene from February 2019. Calls on people to flood the Capitol building on February 23 in connection with border.
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She said there was no violence that day. She now remembers that statement.
“We can do it peacefully” and that she didn’t want to do it “the other way”
“Are you denying under oath.”
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“We can do it peacefully” and that she didn’t want to do it “the other way”
“Are you denying under oath.”
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Cilli asks whether she or her campaign or congressional staff communicated with three different people. She said she didn’t recall. Also did not recall any support provided or promised in connection with January 6th
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She also claims “I don’t know anything about that” when asked whether she knew people planned to make noise outside Capitol.
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Judge announced a break until 1:30 pm
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The MTG hearing is about to resume
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Did you or anyone on staff provide tours to anyone US Capitol? She said no. She would need to talk to people on staff to know if they provided financial support to any of protests.
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Discussion of the Declaration of Independence. I have no idea of where his questions are headed.
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Was the American Revolution an American an insurrection against the British Government? She dodged this. She admits that violence was used to break away from a tyrannical King.
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Cilli is playing a video from October of 2021. Greene is comparing 1776 to January 6.
Also
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Also
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He’s showing her a video of herself with a gun rights activist wearing a shirt linking gun rights to 1776.
“If they take away your guns you can’t stop a tyrannical government”
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“If they take away your guns you can’t stop a tyrannical government”
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She says she believes without guns you can’t stop a tyrannical government.
He asked what she means “Once you lose your freedom it has to be earned with the price of blood” —
She says she doesn’t want war. Regarding 1776 — She says “I don’t use it as a term of violence”
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He asked what she means “Once you lose your freedom it has to be earned with the price of blood” —
She says she doesn’t want war. Regarding 1776 — She says “I don’t use it as a term of violence”
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Cilli asked whether 1776 is used including by her to describe the events of January 6th.
She denies knowing this is done. Cilli runs a video from January 5.
“This is our 1776 moment” in reference to what to expect for the next
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She denies knowing this is done. Cilli runs a video from January 5.
“This is our 1776 moment” in reference to what to expect for the next
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On video she said she was echoing Republican colleagues who used same 1776 language. But now she says she doesn’t remember
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He asks whether 1776 was a code word for violence.
“I don’t know much about the Proud Boys” she said when asked if she knew they were a violent extremist group. Also said she didn’t know that 1776 was name of their plan
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“I don’t know much about the Proud Boys” she said when asked if she knew they were a violent extremist group. Also said she didn’t know that 1776 was name of their plan
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He refers to an article from March NYT article about Proud Boys planning to storm Capitol.
“I don’t know anything about that” when asked whether she knew 1776 was the name of the plan to stop electoral certification (I think he said).
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“I don’t know anything about that” when asked whether she knew 1776 was the name of the plan to stop electoral certification (I think he said).
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He should a video with song Faithfully and she identified person as Ali Alexander. He then described MTG as his favorite. “I don’t really know him.” She said she only met him a couple of times
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Showed. Sorry for typos.
Discussion about Twitter. Ali Alexander referenced 1776 in a response to her tweet alluding to entering Capitol and doing violence.
She says he never saw it before
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Discussion about Twitter. Ali Alexander referenced 1776 in a response to her tweet alluding to entering Capitol and doing violence.
She says he never saw it before
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He asks whether Biden certification was a blow to freedom. “I don’t agree with what you’re saying”
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Cilli shows video where Marjorie Taylor Greene says “you cannot allow it to transfer power peacefully like Joe Biden wants” because he did not win.
She is trying to distance herself from it. Says it’s not from her Facebook page
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She is trying to distance herself from it. Says it’s not from her Facebook page
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He shows a longer version of this video. She said on video there would be a million people who were coming to Washington. She said on video we are not a people who will go peacefully.
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She said planning she referred to was legally objecting on floor of Congress.
She is claiming that she meant “you can’t allow it to transfer peacefully” to refer to objection on floor
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She is claiming that she meant “you can’t allow it to transfer peacefully” to refer to objection on floor
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In court she keeps saying she wanted everyone to act peacefully. But that is not what she said then.
Lawyer is asking if she’s borrowing from movie Independence Day
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Lawyer is asking if she’s borrowing from movie Independence Day
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She says she doesn’t remember advocating Trump use martial law to stay in power.
He’s asking about Aguerro (sp?)
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He’s asking about Aguerro (sp?)
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She says neither she nor her staff was in touch with anyone involved in the day’s demonstrations.
Only learned of violence when they went on lockdown. Told family she was safe when she was in a secure location. Doesn’t recall contact with anyone else outside
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Only learned of violence when they went on lockdown. Told family she was safe when she was in a secure location. Doesn’t recall contact with anyone else outside
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“We thought Antifa and BLM” was breaking in.
She is dodging the question as to whether any Antifa or BLM members were part of the January insurrection. Says she doesn’t know.
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She is dodging the question as to whether any Antifa or BLM members were part of the January insurrection. Says she doesn’t know.
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Brief pause while lawyers step outside to talk. MTG waves at someone from stand.
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We are back. He’s asking about news the day before about violence on the 6th. She said she was unaware of pending violence because she was too busy planning objections.
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Cilli is now asking about Twitter. MTG says she was permanently banned. He asked whether Facebook asked her to take down any videos. She said she didn’t know
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Bopp is now questioning MTG about experience during lockdown. She said she thought it was Antifa and BLM. Then she tweeted something about how people should remain peaceful and support President Trump and election integrity.
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Technology challenge
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Recess to set up slides maybe. Bopp needs assistance
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I have other things to attend to. So I am signing off now. I may come back and piece things together later in the afternoon
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