Thread by @dhadjowa

Day 3 of the Coronial Inquest into the death in custody of Veronica Nelson commences at 10am today. Please attend in support of Veronica's family if you can. If you can't attend in person you can watch the live link at csvic.webex.com/csvic/onstage/…
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This morning Jill Prior from the Law & Advocacy Centre for Women will be examined by other interested parties, including the barrister for Aunty Donna Nelson, Mr Rishi Nathwani
#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Counsel Assisting continues examining the witness

Prior describes the first time she met Veronica in Jan 2019: "When I first met Veronica at the Neighbourhood Justice Centre I was struck by how calm and considered she was. She was able to make an assessment of what she needed"

Prior responds to description of Veronica as ‘agitated’ in comms from Barrister Antos the day her bail app was denied:

Prior: being "remanded in...custody overnight...ought to elicit a response that might be described in this way because it's a very uncomfortable environment”

Counsel for Aunty Donna Nelson begins questioning the witness.

Prior is asked a series of questions about the application of section 3AAA of the Bail Act 1977 (Vic).

#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Prior is asked to comment on if direct or indirect discrimination may have impacted on Veronica’s treatment in the criminal justice system

Prior: The Aboriginal community is an over-policed community, and it’s a community that continues to be overrepresented in the system

Counsel for Percy Lovett begins questioning Prior

Q: If you knew your client was sitting in the cells and it's 8pm would you feel comfortable to speak up at the Bail and Remand Court and ask if they could sit longer?

Prior: More than comfortable

Counsel for Legal Aid asks about recommendations, including around access to legal representation for bail applications

“Do you agree that a person in Veronica Nelson’s situation should have the assistance of a lawyer?“

Prior: I do agree with that

Q: Do you agree that there should be a review of the classification of offences to ensure that low level offences like shop stealing are not caught up with the higher threshold (“exceptional circumstances”) in the Bail Act 1977?

Prior: Yes, I would urge that they be reviewed

Q: In relation to the pressures of making an application for the Bail and Remand Court you’ve witnessed unrepresented individuals make bail applications, what are the problems with this?

Prior: It means that the onus is on the bail applicant to cross-examine the police informant

Counsel continues to list other issues that arise when a bail applicant appears unrepresented:
-They can make admissions without knowing it
- Bail applications are very complex
- Leads to unfair outcomes

Ms Prior agrees with these statements

Counsel asks about the impact Ms Nelson’s passing has had on herself and her staff

Prior: “It’s profound, it’s always distressing. Our clients are significantly disadvantaged and it is an unacceptable reality”

#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

The court has adjourned for lunch and will resume at 1pm

#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Court resumes, Peter Schumpeter takes the stand. He is a barrister w Victorian Legal Aid, working at the Bail & Remand Court (BARC). This afternoon he will be cross-examined in relation to his statement about his dealings with Veronica, as well as processes at BARC more generally

Schumpeter is asked a few questions in relation to Veronica's paperwork at the Bail & Remand Court, which includes hand-written notes saying “open grant from LACW”.

Counsel asks what he took this to mean. He says it would typically involve complex cases & clients w complex needs

Schumpeter explains day-to-day processes & workloads at BARC and how it differs from other courts. He explains part of his day-to-day work involves trying to ascertain whether clients have a cognitive or mental disability, if the client needs assistance w CISP or other programs.

Schumpeter was a duty lawyer at BARC on the day that Veronica made her application for bail. He explains that he recommended her for CISP. He was advised at that time that the CISP team didn’t have time to see if she was eligible for that assessment on the day in question.

Counsel: is there a sense that you have in the court that there is an enormous pressure to get through the workload?

Schumpeter: “enormous pressure”.

Q:In the event a client that has been allocated to u indicates that they don’t want to see u, do u still take an interest in that particular client?

Sch: Absolutely, it’s not uncommon, if someone is withdrawing or has mental health issues. I would still follow through though

Counsel: Was it your understanding that there was a bail application to be filled out for Veronica?

Schumpeter: yes Law and Advocacy Centre for Women (LACW) would support her and if they couldn’t legal aid would step in and do the bail application

Counsel: Did u notice a pressure on the workload of duty lawyers after the amendments to the Bail Act 1977 (Vic)?

Schumpeter: Yes, an increase in the number of cases. A number of people appear in BARC who shouldn’t be there in the first place... (1/2, cont below)

(cont from above)... I haven’t done any studies of it, but that’s my experience of it. I work at the coalface, I am not a policymaker.(2/2)

Counsel for Aunty Donna: If you had two applications before the BARC one night, and one was a bail application involving allegations of petty shop theft, would you have prioritised this application?

Schumpeter: I would have made it a priority

Counsel: You cant recall if you saw Veronica or not. If you didn’t see her, would you consider that a failure on your behalf?

Schumpeter responds that it wouldn’t have been a failure. But that he still took the “necessary steps to take care of her that night”.

Court adjourns.

The next witness to take the stand is Tass Antos, who has provided two statements on this matter. This afternoon he will be cross-examined on these two documents.
#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Counsel asks how he came to learn about Veronica's passing.

Tass Antos: I can’t recall but it was an email in the first week of January.
--
Counsel: did you speak to Jill Prior about it?

Antos: I did but I can’t recall much about it.

Q: You saw you were at the BARC already working on a separate matter, when you were asked to act for Veronica. Did u have a phone call with Ms Prior?

Antos: Yes. She was a client or currently was a client one of the two

Q: It was effectively a phone briefing?

Antos: Yes, yes

Counsel: Did you understand that it was an expectation that a bail application was to be made on her behalf?

Antos: No. I was under the understanding that I would look at the brief and make a determination on the day.

Counsel: As her lawyer, you had a conversation with Veronica at the BARC, can you tell us about how this conversation went?

Antos: I cant recall the specifics. Since that time I’ve seen lots of people on remand and I can’t recall the specifics of what was said.

Counsel: In your statement you say that you can’t recall anything beyond that which is referred to in an email given the passage of time, beyond that which is in an email in which you refer to Ms Nelson as “quite aggressive”

Counsel: As her lawyer on the day, did you read the summary to her?

Antos: I would have.

Counsel: I have shown you a copy of your email to Jill Prior in which you make some observations about Veronica, that she was aggressive and dismissive. Do you recall her behaviour at the time?

Antos: I can’t recall specifics.

Counsel: at the time you received the call from Jill Prior about Veronica having passed, did you recall anything then?

Antos: Yes.

The court is played the audio of Veronica’s bail application.

Counsel: why did you advise Veronica to make her own bail application?

Tass Antos: I can’t recall

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Counsel: You mention in the memo that ‘bail was unsurprisingly refused’. Were you were expecting her not to get bail?

Antos: It was a high threshold for bail.

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The court is shown an email by Tass Antos to Jill Prior on the day: “I think she knew that her time on the run coupled with avoiding the police had come to a sudden end and that she was very “angry” and “agitated” about that”.

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Counsel: Do you recall her being “agitated” and “aggressive”, as you describe in your email?

Antos: I don’t recall.

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Counsel: Do you accept that you put to Ms Nelson that she should make the application on her own?

Antos: Yes

Counsel: and that was so that she could make an application at a later date?

Antos: Yes

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Counsel: you refer a number of times that Ms Nelson is presenting as “dismissive”, “angry”, “aggressive”, “agitated”--these are some of the words you used in your email. Did you invite her to have representation other than you?

Antos: I can’t recall.

#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Antos appears to be having trouble remembering anything that happened on the day.

Court adjourns, and Antos will retake the stand tomorrow morning at 10am.

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