Thread by @dhadjowa

It's the 21st day of the inquest into Veronica Nelson's death in custody. After 10am today, we'll hear from a group of justice administration experts in a process called a 'hot tub'. The list of expert witnesses is in this thread. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

https://twitter.com/dhadjowa/status/1528559777626091520

We have just been told that the Administration of Justice experts are still convening privately on the questions to be put to them. The hearing will start later today. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

The Justice Conclave will be sitting in a separate courtroom to lawyers, family and the public for this hearing, so we may not be able to identify speakers very clearly. Where we can't name them, we will share quotes and try to follow up after. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

From the Justice Conclave, both Aunty Marjorie Thorpe and Uncle Ted Wilkes acknowledge Aunty Donna Nelson (Veronica Nelson's mother) and Uncle Percy Lovett (her partner). #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Coroner Simon McGregor is now explaining what the court is doing today: hearing from subject matter experts, stakeholder institutions, and organisations. The Coroner says this will assist with his prevention role for 'better health and justice outcomes.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

(In this thread, you can find a list of the experts and stakeholders who will be part of the 'hot tub' hearing today.)

https://twitter.com/dhadjowa/status/1528559777626091520

The stakeholder panel are now being introduced — this list now includes Nerita Waight of @thevalsmob.

https://twitter.com/dhadjowa/status/1528559781568716801

The first question put to the Justice Conclave concerns definitions of various concepts — the first is 'cultural competence'. The Justice Conclave have numerous clarifications they want to add to the Court's understanding. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

The Conclave say that the term 'cultural competence' has been critiqued by racialised scholars, was brought from another context, and that it sometimes lacks local relevance to mob. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

The Conclave adds (through Dr Amanda Porter) that the term is especially insensitive in the settler criminal justice system, an ongoing part of colonisation. The term also detracts from visibility of the cultural position of the dominant culture. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

In light of these critiques, Aunty Marjorie Thorpe suggests that another definition may include concepts in line with international human rights, including by making references to 'humanity' and 'respect'. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Two further definitions are put to the Conclave: 'cultural safety' and 'stigma'. Lee-Anne Carter adds to 'cultural safety': 'it's more than acknowledging privilege...it's about understanding the impact of your own culture & values on Aboriginal people.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

The Conclave is now asked about barriers to Veronica Nelson having contact with VALS or another legal advisor and disclosing health information. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Lee-Anne Carter: 'One of the barriers was how quickly the police interview took place. Veronica was asked if she wanted legal advice and it was only three seconds until she was asked the next question.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Melinda Walker brings up 'gratuitous concurrence' in Veronica's state of 'disempowerment in custody'. 'More ought to have been done...particularly because VALS' had tried to make contact multiple times while she was in the station.
#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Melinda Walker: 'There is a significant shift of blame and responsibility in these questions onto Veronica to obtain legal advice' rather than shifting focus to the lack of attempts by police to establish contact with VALS despite their welfare checks. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Counsel Assisting asks VALS CEO Nerita Waight to comment: 'It's important to remember that this service was created in response to RCIADIC [...] Our people are less likely to get the medical care and procedural fairness we need in custody.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Waight: 'In terms of workload, we have on average 33 people each day who we do checks on in police custody.'
#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Jessica Thomson (VLA): When speaking to Aboriginal clients after police interviews, some mob say that they wanted legal advice, but felt like they couldn't say 'yes' when asked. They perceived that they'd be penalised for it. #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Nerita Waight: 'They fear the consequences of not doing so...the risk is to their life.' This results in deference to 'preferred answers'. #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Dan Nicholson (VLA): It's also about the context in which police present the offer. There's no 'phone on the table', it's made to look like getting advice would be a difficult, slow process.

Nerita Waight (VALS): 'This can't just be undone by training...The system designed as it is was meant to oppress us...Training is not an answer to everything, it's just a part of it.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Assistant Commissioner Russell Barrett (Victoria Police): 'We offer and provide that service, and it's taken up. The person here [Veronica] understood the question and gave a clear answer. If someone seeks to contact VALS, we will facilitate it.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Russell Barrett: 'Having phones in the interview room would be a safety issue.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Counsel for Uncle Percy Lovett asks the Conclave: 'Was there a sufficiency of explanation of what VALS might speak to her about [both welfare checks and legal advice]?'
Kin Leong (VALS): 'Our consensus position is no.'

The Conclave is now asked about how and when Victoria Police ask those in custody if they are Indigenous. Lee-Anne Carter: 'The first time you may get asked is in interview, that's not rare. Sometimes there's presumptions made.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Lawerence Moser (VLA): 'The majority of the mob who have come into the justice system, it harks back to [...] schoolyard bully tactics. You've been taunted all day long, you belt someone, and then only you have the consequences. [...] So you conform.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Russell Barrett (VicPol): 'Cultural awareness training is only one element of understanding the intergenerational harm of which Victoria Police has been part in the past. The power imbalance is quite complex. [Cultural competence] is a journey for us.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Counsel Assisting puts another question to the Conclave: 'What are the barriers to Veronica Nelson disclosing a medical condition in open court?' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

The Conclave answers: 'To raise a health concern with so much stigma behind it [withdrawing from a prohibited substance], would have been incredibly brave and would damage any chance she may have had of being granted bail.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Elena Campbell (CiJ): 'In her court experience Veronica was already described as a 'recidivist shoplifter', [making it hard] to disclose something that has further stigma where she may not have thought there was a constructive reason to raise it.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Elena Campbell (CiJ): 'In these questions the burden keeps falling back on Veronica, the individual.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Uncle Ted Wilkes (FLS): 'There is research to indicate that decriminalising certain drugs is in the interests of Australia. It's certainly in the interests of Aboriginal people.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Uncle Ted Wilkes (FLS): 'I would like to think that as a result of this inquiry, particularly as an Aboriginal person, that there's no discrimination on who uses these drugs.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Counsel Assisting asks if drug decriminalisation is a consensus position for the subject matter expert Conclave. The Conclave says it is a 'majority position'. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Lee-Anne Carter (VALS): 'No Aboriginal person should have to endure a bail application without the support of another Aboriginal person. There needs to be better resourcing [to make that happen].' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Elena Campbell (CiJ): 'UN standards for women in prison identifies the need to immediately have their health and AOD needs assessed. These are issues that are often likely to have brought them into the criminal justice system in the first place.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Lee-Ann Carter (VALS) points out that the rate of Aboriginal women entering custody in Victoria has risen by 115%. 'It's well known. It's the apathy in addressing that that's led us to where we are today.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

The Court has now adjourned for lunch. #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

We've returned to the Coroners' Court for the afternoon. Over the break, the 'hot tub' took several questions on notice. We're hearing their answers now. #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Nerita Waight (VALS) advocates for decriminalisation: We are not in favour of mandatory participation in AOD treatment, or in a distinction in the decriminalisation of "soft" drugs but not "hard" drugs, or in introducing alternative penalties like fines.
#JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Melinda Walker (LiJ): 'The Bail Act is complex by design...there is a presumption of the refusal of bail. Any person who is unrepresented will struggle with getting through that. There's 31 surrounding circumstances and risk factors in 3AAA.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Melinda Walker: 'Veronica's partner could have been called to speak to support he could give. There could be a detailed history of her personal circumstances provided [including] risks to her health. There could have been attention to human rights.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Melinda Walker: 'Those were considerations that the court could have then had before them to make an informed decision required by the Bail Act. There's 31 surrounding circumstances. You can only say that being represented would have benefitted [her].' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Melinda Walker (LiJ): 'The Court did not make note of the seriousness of the offence in [Veronica's] bail hearing. It was a low level theft [alleged] offence, an alleged shop theft. There is no indicated consideration of the likelihood of a sentence.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Melinda Walker (LiJ): 'There was no overt consideration of any of her special vulnerabilities — there were no inquiries made to that. Had she been represented, there's no doubt that would be agitated before the court.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Melinda Walker (LiJ): 'The only acknowledgement of Veronica's Aboriginality was not after a consideration of 3AAA, but were the remand remarks. It's the [Conclave] panel's consensus that this was tokenistic, cut-and-paste and not thought out.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Melinda Walker (LiJ): 'Aboriginality was written with a lower-case a, and the RCIADIC recommendations mentioned were not applicable. There's insufficient information where you could be satisfied those considerations were properly taken.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Melinda Walker (LiJ): 'It cannot continue that cursory considerations of someone's liberty are made. It can't continue that nominal informants can be used in bail applications when you are talking about removing someone's liberty.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Lee-Anne Carter (VALS): 'We had an Aboriginal woman called Veronica who had commitments to her community, her kinship and cared for sick family. We talk about risk, but no one actually asked her why she missed court.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Lee-Anne Carter (VALS): 'No one knows because no one asks, and only assumptions can be made. There needs to be a proper assessment. We're talking about an Aboriginal woman with her own circumstances that put her in front of that court, but no one asked.' #JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Lee-Anne Carter (VALS): 'Implement the recommendations of RCIADIC.'
Melinda Waker (LiJ): 'This is the consensus position of the Conclave. It has been too long since RCIADIC. The recommendations have not been implemented. That would go a long way.'
#JusticeForVeronicaWalker

Counsel Assisting asks the Conclave which RCIADIC recommendations were especially important. Lee-Ann Carter: 'Aboriginal health services must be involved in decisions — including the delivery of medical services in police custody, mental health, and early prevention programs.'

Nerita Waight (VALS) explains how short sentences and periods on remand can disrupt access to public housing and other services. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Lee-Anne Carter (VALS): 'There's a big difference between being remanded and being sentenced in terms of accessing services and programs.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Melinda Walker (LiJ): 'It's more than losing your place in the queue, it's losing your home, it's losing your children.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Counsel Assisting puts to the panel: 'In the experience of the panel, is it common that the prosecution or the informant provides the court with details relevant to a deceased's circumstances that may benefit them in bail applications?'
The answer of the Conclave is: no.

Russell Barrett (VicPol): 'We will provide any information that's available to us when it's asked of us. I'd have to go back and refer to the policy, it's certainly not the policy to say we shouldn't. It's hard for me to answer on one application.'
#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

The Equal Opportunity and Human Rights Commission is now putting questions to the Conclave and stakeholder panel.
'Is remand documentation sufficient, in that helpful information is provided?'
Melinda Walker (LiJ): 'No.'
#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

EOHRC: 'Is it fair to describe the remand brief as being an adversarial document rather than a disclosure document?'
Walker: 'It's an adversarial document. There were errors in this document that Veronica didn't know about and couldn't correct.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

EOHRC: 'Should a remand document include all factors in s3AAA of the Bail Act?'
Walker: 'There are some matters in 3AAA that would be inappropriate for police to answer. It's usually the adverse matters that are highlighted by police.'
#JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Melinda Walker: 'If a person is taken into custody for an alleged offence that wouldn't attract a custodial sentence, that should be an exceptional circumstance and they should not be in custody. We'd see a lot less people remanded in the first place.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Adam Wilson (FLS): 'Reverse onus tests should be removed entirely from the Bail Act.' #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

The Coroner has adjourned the Court until 10am tomorrow. Questioning of the Conclave and the stakeholder panel will continue then. #JusticeForVeronicaNelson

Because of technical and human error, some of the tweets above use an incorrect hashtag. Please continue to use #JusticeForVeronicaNelson if you are tweeting about this inquest. We are deeply sorry for the error and any pain it has caused.