Thread by @Deaftrav

@NL_Assoc_Deaf @NLESDCA @NLhumanrights @1940CADASC
Good morning everyone and welcome to Day Four of what should be the hottest #deaf #deafed topic in Canada. Even the Americans are watching this tribunal. On the docket today are two Deaf specialists.

First off is Tammy Vaters. I apologize for misspelling as it tends to correct to Vaders. That is the Educational Assistant or Student Assistant. She was trained and experienced in Ontario and knows how to do her job. Yes I confirmed this beforehand.

Then in the afternoon is expected to be Dr. Kristin Snoddon. She is a doctor with her areas of Expertise
Inclusive education policy; Sign language planning and policy in early childhood; Literacy; Bilingualism; Disability studies - her bio from TMU.

Deafdots and CDGM are observing online as well as members from various Deaf communities and organizations across Canada however @NL_Assoc_Deaf and @1940CADASC doesn't seem to have sent reps even though this is in St. John's.

I will be back soon. It's 7 am and the sun is just rising. I need to wake up.

Today's tweeting will be a bit of a challenge to text as the witnesses are signers. So my tweets will be slow to come. I'll likely post summaries. I don't want to miss what they're saying.

and we're live. the interpreter screen is a lot bigger so this is easier on me. I didn't realise this was a challenge for me. Thank you @NLhumanrights

@NLhumanrights Kyle, @kimagreening lawyer is explaining the amount of interpreters involved in this. @NLhumanrights is taking pains to ensure this is accessible and clearly understood by the witnesses

Three hours set aside with Tammy Vaters. Whoa... Kyle explains that he wants to explore her relationship with Carter. Probably wont be 3 hours, but it's scheduled.

Lawyer. Part time Grade 1. grade 2 full time in the last 3 weeks, and full time after.
T. Correction. all day with Carter in Grade 1.

Currently reviewing the scheduling. It doesn't seem consistent. Information is fine, but the scheduling wasn't

Vater: outreach specialist. Domestic violence. go to court, support with legal process. how to use interpreters.
L. So you're Deaf?
T. uhuh...
L. I'd be shocked if you said no!

*laughter*

T. I was hired on call, casual for him. that's when I first met him. After that, district hired me full time.
L. Tell me what you do for carter. teachers don't ride busses.
T. Sure. toileting. was told behaviour, but I realised he needed more. I needed to work with him.

T. It was beyond what I expected at that time, but there wasn't anything for him.

*I'm paraphrasing Vaters*

L. What do you beyond go beyond his needs?
T. He had no concept, no ASL, nothing. I'd bring my work and my resources on the bus and exposure him to that. Visual language, examples. Carter loved my demonstrations.

Vaters is getting very animated. She's citing different examples, and she would bring games to those events, taught Carter's friends some signs. "Yeah I assumed some of the teacher's roles because there was no communications!"

Vaters. "Communications from the teacher wasn't direct. it'd get passed between people before it got to him! that's not fair! That's not communications!"

The voicing interpreter understands Vaters pretty decently. I'm listening as Vaters sign and it's pretty decent.

L. going over the bus incident. "were you told to stop teaching carter."
T. I don't recall being told to stop teaching.
L. Did you reduce?
T. Yes. I didn't bring the book, I used the iphone for visual apps.
l. Why change?

T. I think because there's other children on the bus. Later with the new bus, there were other kids. Buses are great ways to develop social skills.
L. So at the first school, did carter interact with his hearing peers on the bus
T..No

L. You had other students in carter's grade 1?
T. Yes, but remember, 5 years ago and I got moved around a little. so I'm unsure of the order.
L. Let's talk about Carter when you met him. his language skills?
T. He had none. He was the sweetest kid. my heart was touched.

T. I felt I needed to do something for him!
L. How many interpreters were provided?
T. 2 Of course, I get 2 interpreters because PD day is all day. that's a lot of work.
L. Was this automatic?
T. No, I had to make a formal complaint.

T. Wasn't for all school events, just special events.

Todd whispers something to the lawyer.

L. Why did you have to advocate?

T. I felt I needed to. Where's our access? Me and carter. We need this! How is that equitable???

L. You're an advocate. Did you advocate for Carter from the inside?
T. Yes
L what was the reaction? Jamie Cody specifically?
T. In brainstorming sessions, yes. It was great. Then cody came along... THey were shocked by my information,

T. I don't think Cody realised I was deaf. We raised the issue. Cody said "THat's not a priority." The teachers were all shocked.

- aside. um... wow...

L. So you're at a PD development with an excellent session... and mr cody checking in... and informs you that your ideas and the deaf children are not a priority. to you. What was your reaction.
T. I was shocked. I couldnt believe it. I was shocked!!

-aside, sorry I'm just in shock myself. That's a HR complaint right there...

T. Yeah I got angry, I asked about the Deaf and Hard of hearing children and Cody could not answer my question so I made a formal complaint

L. So this was your first PD, you were making progress with staff and you're left with the priority that this is not a priority?
T. Yes
L. Formal complaint, Principal already testitifed. Did you inform Dawe about that?
T. Yes

L. How did she react?
T. I have no idea. *incredulous laugh. THere's no communications!"

District lawyers face is getting a little red and they're madly writing notes.
L. were your complaints addressed?
T. I was called into a meeting with Cody. He 'apologised' for his remarks, but honestly I felt scarred, traumatized and felt the apology was a HR forced apology.

Basically Tammy said the board swept it under the rug and made a weak apology that was to avoid being sued.

L. What resources did you want resolved with Cody?
T. methods of communications with deaf students, resources. How to communicate in school. Instill culture, some understanding of Deaf Education

L. Tell me about Carter and classmates getting together in that deaf class
T. *Smiles and cries* I remember when they got together, it was emotional. It was exciting. PAH! they have a shared identity.
*interpreter is trying not to cry*

T. It was one of the most inspiring moment. The children saw each other. They could be inspired. But! Carter couldnt get into the play area. So I asked Carter if he wanted to go in. he said yes! I picked up him and brought him into the room

T. Carter doesn't like to be out of his wheelchair, but that day he was so happy, being in that play environment. All Deaf kids. That's my memory.

@kimagreening is crying again

@kimagreening Lawyer is slowing down. taking it carefully.
L. You two are the only deaf people in the first school?
T. No, just the only two that knew asl. there were other kids who were hoh but they didn't know asl and werent with us.

@kimagreening L. Let's go to grade 3. You said Carter couldnt communicate with his teacher?
T. I'm bad with names (Me too - Travis)
L. Ms. Hatcher?
T. yes!
L. Confirming timeline with other staff

L. Did you have to communicate Carter's materials for Jo Anne? (Teacher yesterday with survival)
T. Yes. She couldn't sign. She said she was level 3, but that's not possible. No. she couldn't understand me. She'd misunderstand me and go off in the wrong direction

L. Principal couldn't evaluate her because they had no asl. but you could
T. Yes
L. and you had serious concerns?
T. yes!
L. Were you aware that @kimagreening got the teacher tested?
T. Yes
L. Reading the test results

@kimagreening The results are brutal. She was poor, basically.
L. Does that line up with your assessment?
T. Yes
L. Did you know she rejects that and believes she's better? What do you think?
T. *laughter* no. She's not proficient. I'm an asl instructor. No. No structure!

T. She has a great deal of room for improvement
L. Could carter and the other students understand her?
T. No. Carter couldnt understand. I interpreted as a Deaf Intrepter. She didn't appreciate that.

L. Why?
T. *Sarcastic tone* Because she took asl classes! She knows she has it. she said you can learn asl in a year!

L. Can you learn 101 in a weekend?
T. Impossible. *expression is sarcastic and incredulous*
L. So you were a DI?
T. Yes
L. Is this normal of a SA?
T. No

@kimagreening mouths *wow, unbelievable*

L. Were you aware that @kimagreening was advocating for more resources?
T. Yes, I was also advocating beyond my role as a SA. I was bringing in resources and by default I was teaching.
L. Did you ever indicate to administration that this was inappropriate.

T. *shrugs* we had ineffective communications. I put my complaint forward, no idea what happened afterwards.

L. What challenges did you see when you first saw Carter?
T. It was sad. Carter wanted to be involved with his classmates. He could see them and wants to know what's up, but couldnt communicate. He was pretty damn frustrated.

Interpreter says darn, but no... that's damn. There's other words, but it's an ASL term for cursing.

AJ. What was he able to do? or not able?
T. Carter could express himself. Could see range of emotion. I could sense how difficult it was for him.

*Interpreter is biting her tongue trying to stay professional*

T. We were struggling with everyday activities

T. Christmas activates, he'd watch, but wanted to be involved. How could he have a role let alone understand what the other kids were doing?

L. Why were his hearing classmates not a good match for him.
T. *Are you an idiot? expression* They couldnt communicate with him. One or two kids were interested, but 30 kids, He was largely ignored.

L. Let's talk about this meeting with Sheila, principal, psychologist. At Beach. *confirming dates*
T. Yes I remember that meeting. Parents, can't get rid of them!
@kimagreening giggled at that comment
L. How many kids taught at the deaf school?
T. not sure of the number I gave

T. I told them that the deaf school had visual materials, curriculum, direct communications, *written as transparency*
L. So it wasnt unusual for you to advocate, to raise concerns?
T. right.
L. So you were raising these concerns from the start?
T. yes

L. You still do it?
T. Yes
L. More I hear you, the more I'm inclined to believe you. re teaching Carter
T. Teacher couldn't communicate. I brought my past experiences. Who else knows what to do? We would be parallel teaching!

L. Job description was simple SA?
T. Yes
L. No language acquisition or sign language support?
T. No.
L. Is that an accurate description of your job?
T.
L. Tell me why?

T. Deaf children have different needs. Deaf children have communication needs. Same brain, but a hearing child always hear language. Deaf children are later. if we expose deaf children early on to ASL, they have equal access

-aside, this was challenged by one earlier teacher. Deaf children even with ASL don't hear the radio or background chatter, but is otherwise pretty spot on

L. If the teacher is proficient in ASL, they wouldn't need an Educational Interpreter??
T. Correct.
L. how many hired?
t. 2
L, were you hired for EI?
t. No.
L. Gillian testified, saying she need you or EI for some signs as she isn't a native signer

L. Let's compare Gillian's skillset with the other teachers
T. I was always happy to with with Gillian. She was excited to expand her skills. Van goost? No signing... *hesitant*

T. Martha's signing is weaker than Van Goost but she's willing to learning and improving.

L. Last question before break. You refers eastpoint is a DHH class. Do you remember when it was changed from ASL to DHH
T. I'm not sure... I think it's because ASL was removed, ASL focuses on ASL the school they changed it. Not sure why they changed it.

L. @kimagreening Theorizes that it was because those kids scored low on ASL proficient. so the name change needed to reflect that.
T. I didn't think of this way. Calling it an ASL means the teacher is teaching in asl, but the teacher couldn't. It's a new program.

L. Do you normally call it ASL or DHH?
T. It's typically known as the DHH class. It's not immersive. It's a deaf class. It's not ASL!
L. Has the district offered you ASL upgrading? taking advantage of your proficiency in asl? so you can be a teacher?
T. No

T. in terms of PD? it's not always about working with deaf students. It's general working knowledge of school. Resources, etc. other organizations and resources. But no, it's all of us learning on our own.

T. I gathered resources I thought was useful. Infant communications, family resources. language development, etc. I have that. on my own.

L. If the Dept or District offered you training to increase your ability to be an educator would you take it?
T. Yes! that would be wonderful!!!

L. I'm done for now, coffee break?

Jamie Coady is the Director of Schools for the District. I don't see him on the schedule.

And we're back.

L. Are you aware Van Goost is coming back?
T. yes

over to the district lawyer

More people in the room.

DL. Doc?
T. Workplace TLA.
DL. it's a job posting for the Teach and learning assistant? did you apply?
T. Yes
Dl. Did you know you got it?
T. I havent checked my email
DL. I'm going to suggest you got that position.
T. I did not know

L. Hey! This is inappropriate. Using their job security is extremely inappropriate! This is a surprise tactic!!!
Dl. She testified that she was doing job beyond her position. I wanted to make sure she was aware of that.
AJ. I dont see the issue with the question.

AJ. I don't see her job security being brought into question. I'd prefer if everyone could remain respectful. It's not appropriate to curse.

AJ. I appreciate your testimony. There are no further questions. you may go. We're adjourned until 1 pm.

...

I'm stunned by the district lawyer telling Tammy during the hearing that she was hired. Well... suggested it. That was an inappropriate way and in my opinion a PR stunt.