Thread by @ziggerzagger67

Had to planned to stay well out of the build up to #nffc v #lfc this time around, but events at Anfield at the weekend prompt this thread. Not expecting to change many opinions, but if I can change just one then it’ll have been worth it. Here goes…

Just this thread and then I’ll shut up about it. Promise! ;-)

The vile chanting about football stadium disasters from Man City fans was grim and makes them look completely classless. It’s not all Man City fans, of course. It doesn’t look cool, hard or edgy. Just pathetic and lacking humanity. It’s not banter, it’s abuse.

It’s hard to imagine Saturday’s game passing off without some similar stuff. Hatred of scousers seems to be part of the culture war. “They’re anti-monarchy, Scouse not English, left wing.” But then much of that describes much of the population, me included (not the Scouse bit!)

What scousers are is (very!) vocal and united about it, a result of years of being seen as ‘other’ and living in a region that the state has at times waged economic and social war on. People might not like the Scouse attitude & that is their prerogative. It’s OK to not like them.

They’re portrayed as victims, to which you’d have to say that having 97 of your friends and relatives illegally killed at a football match, for there then to be a state-organised cover up and then spend decades being told it was their own fault kind of legitimises that.

Inquests into Hillsborough attach no blame whatsoever to the behaviour of supporters. The 97 were victims of an inadequate stadium and bad policing decisions. Fact. Spurs and Leeds fans came close to similar tragedy on the same terrace at previous semi finals.

Swap allocated end and it would’ve probably been us.

Then there’s the murderer claims. Heysel was appalling and those found guilty, mostly turned in by fellow-fans, were dealt with by the law. The short-lived blaming of fans of other clubs was ill judged and soon retracted. No one believes that now.

The club/city worked with Juventus/Turin to build bridges. There is a memorial at Anfield. It’s not brushed under the carpet. It could also have been any of us. That’s how football was then and put it in a decaying, dangerous stadium and tragedy becomes almost inevitable.

No one was innocent. Leeds fans rioted in Europe, United, Spurs, England. Forest fans kicked a Boro fan to death. A fan died at St Andrew’s under a collapsing wall as Zulus and the Service Crew rioted.

Those events don’t make everyone associated with those clubs murderers. Particularly those who weren’t even there or even born.

Football supporting was a very different. “But they sang about Munich”. Yep, so did we. So, to my eternal regret, did I. Arms outs, with actions and all. We can all realise our mistakes and move on.

For those of us of a certain age, the scallies on the Annie Road End were a fearsome foe. True. Horrible. So were West Ham, Chelsea, Leeds, Millwall, many others. Oh, and us. We were proud of the Trent End Boot Boys, Mad Squad, FEC or whatever.

I’ve my own Stanley Park horror stories, but I meet many scousers with their own similar Trentside tales of woe. It was indeed grim. But it’s gone. I’m now happy to have a pint or three with guys who once tried to batter me on Arkles Lane. We’re all older and wiser.

There will be people in the ground on Saturday, or watching on Sky, who lost loved ones. There will be people who tried and failed to save their mates from dying, living with all sorts of horrors. Those who still barely keep it together as a result.

Mental health problems, countless suicides, and still it goes on. A tragic flurry of more life-taking after the awful events in Paris this year. Again, blamed then completely exonerated. Another attempt at a cover up. That one too could have been any of us.

And there are some of us Forest too - there on the day, witness to scenes no one should ever witness. Struggling with images of it, survivor guilt, shame at our own actions or lack of them. There are seriously damaged Forest fans out there.

Not everyone of course. But don’t assume those who are affected are snowflakes. Some of us saw things close-up and had involvement and narratives that might shock and surprise.

On Saturday, no one wants a sanitised atmosphere. LFC fans I know enjoyed the rawness here in the cup and agreed it was *almost* all within acceptable boundaries. Hate them if you must. Sing about hating them. They’ll do it back. That’s football.

It’s about rivalry - though we’re barely really rivals to LFC these days and almost 100% of scousers I know were glad to see us back in the top league, seeing us as a ‘proper’ club - and sometimes it’s about pushing humour and irony to the acceptable limits.

But show some humanity. Whatever you think of the politics, the history, the character, please don’t taunt about a disaster. And remember, the ‘murderer’ thing, intended or not, comes across as Hillsborough related.

I’d add, “don’t do the sign on thing” too if you can help it. In the modern world, it looks crass and painfully lacking in awareness, particularly from those of us in a city now *more* deprived than Liverpool on almost any measure: child poverty, unemployment, crime…

… but that might be a bit much to expect. Again, it doesn’t look edgy, just a bit sad. But the tragedy baiting is the big one. Forest have built up a great reputation as passionate, almost old-school supporters in an increasingly bland football environment. Let’s not blow it.