Thread by @MSS3RosaFerreum

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 The #GenderedLaborGap and resulting #GenderPayGap say otherwise. Child support exists because women — unlike men — were viewed by society (including by women) to be incompetent in handling their finances and incapable of working enough to care for children by themselves.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 For millennia, when men were the sole custodial parents after divorce, women were neither asked nor required to pay child support. Men had to support the children of whom the men had custody.

Why can’t modern women handle the same degree of responsibility as men of old?

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 Regarding when men always got custody in divorce, consider "Lagging Behind the Times: Parenthood, Custody, and Gender Bias in the Family Court" by Cynthia A. McNeely published in 1998 in Volume 25 of the _Florida State University Law Review_ on page 891 (ir.law.fsu.edu/cgi/viewconten…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 "[T]he father [was designated] as the natural protector of children because he had the ability to provide for their financial support. Women were seen as incapable of handling legal or financial matters…." 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. 891, 897 (1998).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 "Congress implemented the Talfourd Act of 1839 to legislate the presumption that courts should award custody of children under age seven to the mother." 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. at 897 (1998).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 "This presumption became known as the 'tender-years doctrine,' which legalized for the first time the belief that mothers were better suited to raise children than fathers." 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. at 897 (1998).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 “These… roles ensured the continued economic subjugation of women by requiring their dependence on men for economic survival, following divorce in the forms of alimony and child support, as social etiquette demanded that mothers not work.” 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. 891, 901 (1998).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 “[T]he state frequently … perpetuate[d] the subjugation of women as mothers by deeming them weak and incapable of survival without the support of a man.” 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. 894, 899 (1998) (ir.law.fsu.edu/lr/vol25/iss4/…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 "Eventually, 'the tender-years presumption became the rationale for awarding custody of children of all ages to the mother on a permanent basis.'" 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. at 899 (1998).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 "[T]he continuous refrain throughout the last one hundred years has been that when it comes to childrearing, fathers are not that important." 25 Fla. St. U. L. Rev. at 914 (1998).

You might think the culprit was patriarchy, but it was actually women's rights advocates.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 Consider "The Divorce Bargain: The Fathers’ Rights Movement and Family Inequalities" by Deborah Dinner published in 2016 in Volume 102 of the _Virginia Law Review_ beginning at page 79 (available at: virginialawreview.org/wp-content/upl…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 "[L]egal reforms enabling fathers to fulfill caregiving roles through joint custody would also enable mothers to fulfill breadwinning roles." 102 Virginia Law Review 128 (virginialawreview.org/wp-content/upl…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 "By promoting joint custody as well as sex-neutral spousal maintenance, …the [divorce] bargain liberalized gender roles within divorced families, offering a model of a more egalitarian family structure." 102 Virginia Law Review 142 (virginialawreview.org/wp-content/upl…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 "Criticism of joint custody formed part of a broader critique among feminist legal theorists in the 1980s about what they perceived as an earlier generation of feminist reformers’ mistaken focus on same treatment." 102 Virginia Law Review 144 (virginialawreview.org/wp-content/upl…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 As outlined above, before labor-saving gizmos, men used to be awarded custody whenever the courts got involved and then the "tender years" doctrine came to be (which was advocated for by women) which led to sole custody being awarded to women and women getting child support.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 However, men before the "tender years" doctrine had to be the household breadwinner (as such men received no child support at that time) and had to care for their kids.

@callistoknows, why can't modern women handle the degree of responsibility on their own that those men could?

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 There was no child support prior to the 1800's. Child support didn't exist in America 🇺🇸 prior to 1839. The idea that women were responsible enough to independently parent started in 1839 (but women needed a man's financial help as women were seen as so irresponsible otherwise).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 Consider that now about 82% of single parent homes in 2021 are being run by single mothers (www2.census.gov/programs-surve…).

Now, consider that kids who never had a father living with them have the highest incarceration rates (mnpsych.org/index.php%3Fop…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 Consider that kids in father-only homes have no difference in incarceration rate than kids from two-parent homes (mnpsych.org/index.php%3Fop…) and there was an over 25% drop in homicide, violent crime, and property crime due to legalized abortion (pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10…, at 182).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 Why is there this disparity between single mother households and both single father households and two-parent households?

Is it in society’s interests to fund the single-parent lifestyle choice women make? …or the force fathers to fund that lifestyle?

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 We have to allow the intentional killing of human life (through abortions) to prevent a significant percentage of the societal consequences of irresponsible parenting by single mothers (some of whom do not know who fathered their child) caused by their sexual irresponsibility.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 How can a man choose to become a father? The answer is: he can’t. Parenthood is a decision that rests solely with women. Why should the consequences of that decision be laid at the feet of anyone other than the person who made that decision?

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 Women have all the choices regarding parenthood. A woman can choose to be a parent if she finds a willing sperm donor. A man cannot choose to become a parent even if he finds a willing egg donor or a willing sex partner. She who has the womb has the choice of parenthood.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 If a woman terminates the pregnancy, she terminates the possibility of parenthood. If she carries the pregnancy to term, she puts the responsibilities of parenthood on the father whether that male wants to be a parent or not and whether he consented to sex or impregnation or not.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 Under State of Kansas ex rel. Hermesmann v. Seyer, 252 Kan. 646 (1993)(en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesman… | lexisnexis.com/community/amp-… | law.justia.com/cases/kansas/s…), parental obligations can be imposed on men even when legal consent to sex is absent.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 A 13-year-old boy can be raped by a 30-year-old woman, but if his rapist gets pregnant, (because women have all the choices regarding parenthood) the boy has to pay child support to her — as society deems a 13-year-old boy more fiscally responsible than a 30-year-old woman.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 Why are men continuously viewed as more responsible by society?

Well, perhaps because men work more hours than women (on average) and thereby men get more pay than women (on average).

Afterall, there is a #GenderedLaborGap and a #GenderPayGap.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 If you add up both the unpaid and paid labor, on average, men work more total time than women creating a #GenderedLaborGap pursuant to (as an example) the @BLS_gov's 2017 American Time Use Survey (bls.gov/news.release/a…) and @pewresearch's data (pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch American Time Use Survey (with 2017 as an example) shows that women on average are not spending enough more time with their kids, doing chores, or anything else to explain women's lack of time working.

On average, men just work more in America (considering both paid and unpaid).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Let's do the math:

Table 8A, column 1: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.31 2.34
Caring for household: 1.01 1.85
Work-related activities: 5.46 3.37
==========
Total: 7.78 7.56

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Now comparing the men from Table 8B to the women from Table 8C (where the youngest child is under 6):

Women care for and help household members 2.08 more hours per day than men in the most extreme case presented by Table 8A, but men work 6.43 hours more per day than women.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Similarly, comparing the men from Table 8B to the women from Table 8C (where the youngest child is under 6), women do household activities for 1.91 more hours per day than men in the most extreme case presented by Table 8A, but, again, men work 6.43 hours more per day than women.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Let's do the math: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.26 3.17
Caring for household: 1.42 3.36
Work-related activities: 6.57 0.00
==========
Total: 9.25 6.53

Who is laboring more?

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch By comparing the men from Table 8B to the women from Table 8C (using the youngest child under 6 column), we see the situation where women are unemployed and spending the most time caring not only for the children but the whole family.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Other @BLS_gov data (see below) indicates that 61% of families have both parents employed (bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/…) but does not indicate whether the mothers are working full-time or part-time.

The American Time Use Survey does have an answer in Table 8B.

Let's check that out.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Let's do the math:

Table 8B, column 1: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.23 1.90
Caring for household: 0.93 1.52
Work-related activities: 6.35 5.01
===========
Total: 8.51 8.43

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Maybe women are forced to stay home with their kids and that causes the gap. If true, women with no kids should be working the same amount as men in the workforce as there is no reason not to since there is no reason to be on call and no extra household or childcare duties.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Let's do that math:

Table 8A, column 4: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.54 2.21
Caring for household: 0.07 0.07
Work-related activities: 4.11 2.83
===========
Total: 5.72 5.11

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Consider just workers:

Table 8B, column 4: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.34 1.80
Caring for household: 0.04 0.05
Work-related activities: 6.17 5.29
===========
Total: 7.55 7.14

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Whether you consider all currently childless folks (Table 8A) or just the ones working (Table 8B), women spend less time on paid labor and related activities and women spend less time working considering both unpaid domestic labor and paid labor added together. The pattern holds.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Moreover, homemaking is not usually physically demanding work (unlike the paid labor many men do that women typically do not).

See, Women Workers and Women at Home Are Equally Inactive: NHANES 2003–2006 (available at ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch "Women spent most of their day in sedentary (~55%) and light (~32%) activity, with limited lifestyle (~11%) and moderate vigorous physical activity (MVPA) (~2%), and there were no differences between the homemakers and [employed women]" (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch "A recent study conducted by the PEW Research Center found that stay-at-home mothers reported spending more time on childcare, housework, leisure activities, and sleep more than working mothers" (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…).

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch Table 8A of the @BLS_gov’s 2019 American Time Use Survey (bls.gov/news.release/a…) demonstrates that this #GenderedLaborGap continues to be a problem. It is not just something that existed as a freak accident of statistics in 2017.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch 2019:
Table 8A, column 1: Men: Women:
Household activities: 1.28 2.33
Caring for household: 0.95 1.80
Work-related activities: 5.72 3.35
==========
Total: 7.95 7.48

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch You assert, @callistoknows, that women "are already the superior sex," but superior at what? Laziness?

It isn't parenting as when women parent without the input of the father there are statistically worse outcomes (on average), and women can't parent without the income of a man.

@callistoknows @AmazonEve @Oneiorosgrip @CSeamus5 @MyFlowe43475846 @robinhoodand @againstgrmrs @Ray_gunnz08 @BLS_gov @pewresearch @threadreaderapp, please unroll.