Robert Oubre, MD Profile picture
Nov 5 15 tweets 3 min read
Insurances are REJECTING your diagnoses.

Especially "respiratory failure."

Bullet proof your diagnosis:
The problem?

🔶 A doctor's diagnosis should be the diagnosis. Period.
🔶 But diagnoses determine how much insurances pay hospitals
🔶 So insurances have their own (varying) criteria
🔶 There is not one set definition / criteria for respiratory failure

Let's dig in ⤵️
First, your institution may have their own criteria for respiratory failure.

Ask your CDI department if they have an institutional definition.

If not, this thread describes the general criteria that are expected.

But first, some misconceptions...
🔶 It is NOT only for people who are intubated.
🔶 "Acute Respiratory Distress" = SYMPTOM ≠ resp failure.
🔶 Routine intubation for surgery is NOT considered respiratory failure.

Okay, so general criteria...
THREE expected elements:

Put simply, these patients should be SICK.

They must have:
1️⃣ Altered Gas Exchange
2️⃣ Acutely symptomatic
3️⃣ Require high levels of respiratory support

Let's break those down...
1️⃣ Altered Gas Exchange

Hypoxic respiratory failure
🔶 SpO2 <91% on room air / home O2 or
🔶 P/F ratio <300 or
🔶 2L or more over baseline O2 requirement or
🔶 pO2 < 60 mmHg

Hypercapnic respiratory failure
🔶 pCO2 > 50 with pH <7.35 or
🔶 pCO2 > 10 over baseline with pH <7.35
2️⃣ Acutely symptomatic

They must exhibit respiratory distress and this MUST be documented.

Ex:
🔶 Tachypnea (RR > 20) or Bradypnea (RR < 10)
🔶 Use of accessory muscles
🔶 Inability to speak in complete sentences, etc

But there's a problem...
Patients are typically stabilized / no longer in distress by time of admission.

This SHOULD be documented by the ER doctor... but that's... unreliable.

The LACK of documented respiratory distress is a TOP reason for denial by insurance companies.

So how can you document it?
🔶 Physical exam if still in distress
🔶 Document discussion with ER doc indicating distress
🔶 Check vitals & document tachypnea in A/P.

Auto populated "No respiratory distress" in templates is often a source of denial.
3️⃣ Treatment

This is NOT well defined.

At the very least, they NEED to be on supplemental oxygen.

A minimum is likely 3L NC, but this is not black & white.

But there are nuances…
🤨 At lower levels of supplemental O2, the other elements become more important (distress, level of SpO2, etc).

🤔At higher levels of O2, other elements become less important
(Pt requiring intubation is obviously in respiratory failure).
🧐 I don’t like this definition. There are examples I can think of that DON’T fit these criteria.

Call it respiratory failure if you think it is.

But the takeaway point is:

🌟Not all hypoxia = respiratory failure🌟
In summary:

Not all hypoxia = respiratory failure

Patients must be:

1️⃣ Hypoxic or hypercapnic
2️⃣ Symptomatic / in respiratory distress (document this SOMEWHERE)
3️⃣ Receiving significant respiratory support (no hard rule on O2 level)
I’ve left some things out for simplicity.
This is a highly nuanced topic.
Discuss below!

That's a wrap!

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More from @Dr_Oubre

Oct 29
Do you feel overwhelmed by cross coverage at night?

You need a framework to stay organized.

Here are 5 tips to thrive in these high stress situations:
The problem?

🔶 You might be 1 person covering admits and floor patients you don't know.
🔶 This is a high stress situation.
🔶 A framework allows you to provide better care.

Let's dig in ⤵️
Tip #1️⃣ Determine acuity

Did 5 pages just come through at once?

Get the info from ALL of them asap
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Here are my 9 recommendations.
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Over the past 8 years, I’ve admitted >5,000 patients.

I use the same strategy every time to:

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• Be complete

Admissions can be overwhelming.

Stop stressing, steal my 4 tips below ⤵️
Do you struggle with:

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If you already have a system that works for you, stick with it.

If you’re learning, this is what has worked for me for 8 years⤵️
Tip #1 / Write it down

You MUST stay organized.

You need one place to jot notes through the admission while:

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My simple trick?
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Most people are still using CAP and HCAP for pneumonias.

You should stop.

Here’s why:
The problem?

🔶 CAP & HCAP are meaningless in coding
🔶 You’re documenting simple PNA's but treating complex PNA's
🔶 Complex PNA's have higher reimbursement & risk of mortality
(PNA = Pneumonia)

Understanding this topic will make you a better doctor.

Let's find out why ⤵️
1 / CAUSATIVE ORGANISM GUIDES CODING

This is important for several reasons:

1️⃣ Cultures are NOT required for causative organism.

We all know sputum cultures are unreliable.

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270,000 Americans die of sepsis each year.

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The problem is more complex than you think...

A thread 🧵
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🔶 A different definition has been created.
🔶 This has significant financial, and potentially deadly, consequences

Let's dig in ⤵️
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I studied >200 pages on Clinical Documentation Improvement.

(So you don’t have to)

Here are 3 documenting tips so you (and your hospital) get paid.

(Repost with actual 🧵 this time)
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• Doctors language ≠ coding language

Let’s dig in…
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You’re a doctor. You can make a clinical diagnosis. You do not need perfect objective data to prove it.

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