Thread by @CharCubed

Yeah okay hi.
I am still thinking about #TheWinchesters & about 1x04 specifically, & how it's peeled back some of the layers in John's story & revealed to us that it's a QUEER story, & I'm still going bonkers.

John Winchester Is Bi Because Dean Winchester Is Bi: The Episode 🧵

Look, I've got WAY too much to say about this ep & I've already said quite a few things in bits & pieces here & there. But if I don't go into at least a BIT more detail about this it's gonna haunt me, even as everything in this thread likely won't be the whole of it.

Formal disclaimer:
If you do not like or get upset about...
• the existence of this show
• looking at John as a nuanced character
• the topic of John being queer
• the fact that Dean is canonically bisexual

Then this thread is not for you! & I am not making you read it!

PLEASE scroll away if that applies to you. Don't get pissed at me; I don't write this show. I just call it like I see it, & I share because I like discussion. Self care is not reading things you know might upset you.

If you're into this though, here I go~

First, this clip. 30 seconds that have grafted permanently onto my brain matter. This clip is a megaphone labeled "JOHN WINCHESTER IS ATTRACTED TO MEN" & although it's been a week I'm still not convinced I didn't hallucinate it. On God's green CW? Truly?

What I find so remarkable about this scene–other than everything–is you CAN'T "no homo" it. It DOESN’T LET YOU.

Millie: "Everyone loves a man in uniform."
Does she mean herself? Nope.

Carlos: "Including other men in uniform."
Is it only Carlos? Nope.

Millie. looks. at. John.

It is EXACTLY what every trope in media including SPN specifically have trained you to think it is. You don't gotta like it, but there's NO OTHER WAY to read this scene. And that's by design!

Awards to Bianca Kajlich for this face journey specifically.

Also, moment of silence to appreciate this tweet again. What the fuck. Jensen was insane for that.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Anyway.

Many people have compared the pan-up when John checks Carlos out to the pan-up when Cas returns from Purgatory & Dean is like 😳 (8x07). Which... Yes, mood.

But I see that & I raise you THIS with Bela & Dean for a stronger comparison! (3x06)

The music, the pan-up, the bonus slow-mo on Carlos... yeah.

So, John's a man in uniform who’s canonically attracted to &/or loves other men in uniform! Good for him!

You know who’s the other "man in uniform" of note in this ep & in the show overall? Murph, in John's flashbacks.

Now we come to my main brain worm which won't let me rest:

John Winchester is in the throes of a queer widower arc. He has been from the moment he was introduced to us in this show on screen when having PTSD flashbacks on the bus. We just didn't know the extent of it yet.

YES, ep4 is about PTSD, trauma, anger issues, & toxic masculinity. It's also about grief & queer love in a way that enhances the themes. This show contains multitudes! I love it here!

"Widower arc" is not a leap of logic, ok. It's literally spelled out. Check out this sequence:

The cross is next to a wedding ring, John picks it up, & the flashbacks are interspersed with his face & with him holding it. It adds context to Murph kissing it before dying in front of him.

& then: John hands the necklace to the widow, & we get a close-up of it in her hand.

LOOOOOK AT THE MATERIAL
You expect me to be normal about this television program when I'm being shown shit like this? Absolutely the fuck not.

We've seen this sort of thing before, obviously. It's purposefully impossible not to think about multiple Destiel parallels in all this.

The hauntings of Purgatory. The violence demanded by the Mark of Cain. The grief & anger of widower arc.

Dean loves Cas. John loves Murph.

ALL of the flashbacks to Vietnam are in the desaturated filter akin to Purgatory, & from day one we saw the scar John had on his arm which acts as a callback to Deanbenny as an added bonus. We're meant to be thinking about this! John's bi in the same way we know that DEAN is bi.

& what's fascinating to me is that–as of now–the prequel has made zero effort to persuade us otherwise. It's loud as hell & doesn't walk anything back even an inch.

There's no talk of Murph being John's "brother" or "brother in arms." He was his buddy & his friend.

John saying "buddy" in a room full of WWII veterans is also a hell of a choice, to me. The term is tied to male soldiers & dying lovers.

1-3 from My Buddy: World War II Laid Bare.
4 from Armed Forces: Masculinity & Sexuality in the American War Film.

(Side note: Deanbenny 👁)

Couldn't do alt text for that last one but you can read it (& the rest of the conclusion it's from) here:

drive.google.com/file/d/1aiqcez…

So when people are like "They'd better not make John Winchester bisexual" after seeing the Carlos clip, I'm like... Well. They just did!

& it goes along with how knowing Dean is canonically bi seems like a prerequisite for digging deep into this show–BECAUSE HE IS OUR NARRATOR.

This is Dean's story–in the sense that he's writing it.

This is DEAN'S STORY in mirrored fragments–in the sense that it's telling us about parts of his life, examining their depths, & highlighting what he's already overcome in addition to what he needs/wants for his future.

The show is DENSE & there's a ridiculous amount to unpack in every direction. I'm not gonna go too deep into this tangent right now (haha) but here's an example:

We all clocked that in 1x03 Mary was acting as a Dean mirror when she had to burn her father's hat etc., yeah?

Mary's touched on a variation of Dean's development–daring to dream of a life he defines, breaking free from parents, building found family, learning to heal/talk.

John's shown the origins of the path Dean was manipulated into struggling with & WHY Dean had to break free at all.

Barry, 1x02: "Trapped inside our parents & our parents' parents."

Carlos, 1x04: "Circumstances may be different, but our trauma is the same."

THESES.

Cycles of violence! Parents & children! Trauma of war! Anger manipulated by outside forces! Grief over loss of queer love!

The show isn't excusing any of the trauma that Dean had to deal with from his parents, obviously. It's explaining it. Showing the tragedy of what went wrong is part of the road to making it right.

What makes a monster a monster?
What makes a Winchester a Winchester?
Who is Dean?

Speaking of which: at least once per ep Carlos does something that echoes Dean. (Partially why he's the loud bisexual! <3)

So also in 1x04... Carlos is showing what Dean is trying to be & what he's learned. A huge part of this ep in particular is about needing to speak to heal.

I wrote about this but "talk is cheap" = Millie lost her partner, became hardened, & instilled toxic masculinity in John.

& so, 2 different paths: John, unhealthily bottling things up with silence feeding into anger & despair. Carlos, speaking his truths.

https://twitter.com/CharCubed/status/1587955236441767937

John's been taught that it's better to avoid talking about his feelings. The painful pressures that were put on John are the pressures he later put on Dean (& worse).

The fact that we're being told this story–with awareness of how & why it's harmful–is Dean's personal triumph.

"I don't know why I get so angry."

Dean's SHOWING US why he gets angry. It's anger that comes from not being allowed to speak about the trauma of being a soldier! From the pressures of a parent! From losing a parent! From the weight of grieving lost love!

(+ John losing Murph is precursor to losing Mary)

& it's anger that comes from being manipulated by outside forces–especially a god who calls himself destiny.

How can you successfully heal when there's a god interrupting? Trying to push you into becoming who HE wants you to be?

Said it before, will say it always:
This is about Chuck. & again it's NOT SUBTLE.

John's meant to NOT grow & change & speak because then he'd let go of his anger, & he has a destiny to fulfill. We can't have that.
It's a fight he's destined to lose so it can become Dean's fight.

& in the reverse: BECAUSE it's Dean's fight, he's telling us about it through John's fight. 🌀

Tie this into queerness & you've got... yep, a world where talking about trauma AND queer love are necessities for healing & freedom.

Featuring a god who tries to erase it.

Dean–in his 15x09 outfit–still has something to say :)
He wasn't allowed to speak his truths about his love for Cas & the pain of losing him. John & Murph's story is a reflection of that part of him.

As Carlos says, "I think we have to face what's in here if we want to get out."

AND Dean's also picking the music, baby!

Including but not limited to the way this is the stanza of “I’d Like To Change The World” that plays when John gets off the bus at the start:

"Everywhere is
Freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies
Tell me, where is sanity?"

And the fact that the song in the heartbreaking end of ep4–"Everybody's Talkin'"–perfectly fits these themes.

It's also from the movie Midnight Cowboy (1969). I've not watched it myself yet, but the movie addresses masculinity, American identity via cowboy, & queerness.

Here are 3 articles on that movie that I found really interesting:

• criterion.com/current/posts/…
• the-artifice.com/midnight-cowbo…
• thoughtcatalog.com/paul-reese/201…

Lastly for now:
This pause & cut to Mary & Millie gives me physical chest pains, as well as how Carlos calls him "Winchester" here. I think it says volumes about all the things this ep was conveying, & elements of the destined story that influence him & may progress his tragedy.

SOOOO MUCH IS OCCURRING. & I feel like I’ve only touched upon the tip of the iceberg in this thread!! I could say more! I didn’t even discuss Mary & Lata! GOD.

Whatever, it’s fine, I wanted to write out SOME bits together even though likely none of this is… really news.

I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS FUCKING SHOW

Every ep deserves a thread of this length at minimum but I only have so much time/energy in my life, y’know? Why do I do this, etc.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. God bless this cast & the mind of Robbie Thompson.
#TheWinchesters

If you'd like to read more of my thoughts on this show–most of which are feral live tweets, some thoughts from which are repeated in this thread–you can do so in this collection here. #TheWinchesters

twitter.com/i/events/15894…

I WILL crosspost this to Tumblr later! Just not yet. I need a break lmao.

I have several thoughts on this that didn't make it into this initial thread, actually! Lemme see if I can touch on some.

Before I do though: everyone's personal mileage may vary about how they feel about any of what I'm about to say. & that's valid.

https://twitter.com/Nanosmilus/status/1590323611424153603?s=20&t=8yTeuN8WkjzLZJ53-ukH7g

First, I think the show is actively taking us through the story of how/why John became who he'll become. We're in early stages & already seeing it.

Secondly... I think there's a LOT to be said about the 1972 world this is set in. & by that I mean a few different things:

1. This feels like a somewhat gentler / warmer world so far? Which could be because Dean is writing it. His hand is all over it, like in the "Carrie & Ford" wink to Star Wars we got. By gentler I mean, for example, no one died in ep 2 & 3 whereas classic SPN always had a victim.

This could extend to a semblance of escapism here. I mean, hell, Carlos being his very clearly queer self amongst all those vets–with seemingly no cause for concern–is already a fascinating moment. As is this being a world where veteran therapy is so easy to come by at all.

I'm *personally* cool with that. I like the idea of an unreliably narrated period piece that looks at how there WERE accepting people in history, & maybe gives grace to extend it further. Plus, it's the demon hunting show lol. My suspension of disbelief is a wide umbrella here.

As I've said elsewhere, maybe the vibe is "None of this is real but all of it is true."
2. This could be taking place in an AU in several senses, which could even account for all of this.
3. Maybe overall we just have to be less married to the Literal & Realistic with this story.

4. It’s also POSSIBLE (this is all speculative!) that queer trauma / internalized homophobia isn’t on the table as a topic because it’s a story within a story. Maybe Dean doesn't have to explore that, especially in context of having a family & being good with who he is in life.

This show is centering toxic masculinity SO FAR, tracking with SPN at large. The inability to speak & fearing losing love in general... which isn't beholden to gender for who one is loving or attracted to. It's about ideas of Being A Man, not necessarily being A Straight Man.

If you will: unpacking of patriarchal biases & how masculinity does not have to be limiting, which is very much Dean's journey as a specifically masculine bi man. That doesn't necessarily have to be paired with internalized homophobia. I don't think the implication is that–

–Dean & John (mostly Dean; again, where/when is this 1972?) were necessarily free of that entirely, in the sense that we all live in a Society & have semblance of Awareness of what goes on. But that doesn't have to mean they had internal hatred for themselves or their sexuality.

The revolving closet door does not inherently equal self-loathing, & in my view this is tracking with Dean's development & nuance. I understand there are those who disagree; if they go somewhere else with John I'll certainly be very open to reevaluating depths it may add to Dean!

& IF John is more explicitly bi down the line, that would further underscore Dean's bisexuality, not detract from it. John's bi by the same rules & metrics we know Dean is bi... meaning that if they go further with John, it could say a lot about Dean (& his future) by proxy.

To reiterate though: I understand if people wanted to see this show address bigotry. Personal prerogative. & we absolutely may still get that! But FOR NOW, I'm just enjoying how this show seems more focused on queer joy, acceptance, & legacy (i.e. parts of Carlos, seen in Dean).

One last thought, just to make sure I'm being clear:
If they never do anything more with John being bi, the above analysis still stands. It's not "bait." It's a queer narrative with coding & subtext, & I vouch for taking it as it is without specific expectations for the future.