Thread by @lmstroud89

1/Another day, another live tweeting extravaganza.
This time, we're watching a public hearing in Columbus OH regarding a proposed flavored tobacco and vapor product ban.
It starts in a little over 10 minutes and you can join in here:
reflect-city-columbus-oh.cablecast.tv/CablecastPubli…

2/And here we begin...

3/And the first person is up.
-Flavored tobacco has been a product of wide discussion; FDA is looking at banning menthol; some states and localities have done this.

4/

5/Reiterating that nothing has been decided; wants to hear from all the communities but....

6/Youth use; the amount of tobacco licenses in Columbus; and now onto race - make race a health issue

7/One-third of the black population in Columbus smoke

8/"Will focus on retail sale"

9/Apparently a short program, then testimony.

10/Lots of folks here.

And now we're onto the council president.

12/Talking about respecting the process; also about making sure that the people are heard.
(ICYMI, this is because of the last meeting which saw most e-cigarette proponents not allowed in due to space constraints)

13/Next up is the health commissioner.

14/She's bringing up a measles outbreak and urging the community to know that measles can be prevented by a vaccine.
(Curious if they apply the harm reduction approach to cigarette smoking and promote consumer-driven technologies - something tells me no)

15/"I would remind everyone if you're not vaccinated against measles, please get vaccinated"

16/And now we're onto the reason for the season of flavored vape bans.

17/"Banning menthol and mint products is a matter of health equity."

18/Vaping epidemic (1 time) preying on our kids."
"Flavors are targeted and used to hook kids and minorities ... tobacco industry has been doing it for decades"

19/Dropping cigarette smoking numbers in Columbus.

20/"Puts them on a path of addiction...

21/Smoking rates are going down all over Ohio...

23/Closes out on reaching equality "no matter the color of their skin"

24/Councilmember Favor: Why this issue?

25/Health commissioner: minority communities die from cardiac-related issues; many have COPD/asthma...
"How we know the tobacco industry has intentionally targeted the black/brown communities ... easy to smoke ... tastes good."

26/"As the commissioner if I can limit the access to that drug (yes a drug)"

27/If only governments made money off all the drugs they don't regulate...

28/Favor: Is education and cessation programs not enough?

29/Wonder if she read my testimony?

30/Public health commissioner: not enough retail compliance

31/Councilwoman Favor: Is vaping a better alternative? Is there a difference between e-cigarettes and flavored tobacco.

32/Public health: The FDA has not approved vaping as a cessation device.
-Drops the PMTA.
"None of the [e-cig] companies dropped any data to get it approved as a cessation device... it was offered for them ... the companies chose not to [put in the paperwork]

33/That's straight out of the CTFK/Truth machine. Yuck.

34/Next speaker is up. Didn't get his name but he's dropping stuff from the website.

35/Small businesses want:
-Greater fines for retailers that sell to minors and greater enforcement.

36/"It needs to be brought in line with liquor so there are consequences when you break the rules."

37/Speaking of retail compliance checks...

38/Councilwoman Favor is addressing "people don't feel like we are listening" "Look at how we amended these policies"

39/Councilmember Banxton(sp): wants to know what the definition of flavored tobacco is.

40/Board of Health dude: the definition is in the ordinance.
(Wait, so this guy hasn't even read the ordinance?)

41/Bankston: We our current enforcement only being at 70% - what's the new enforcement?

42/Where is dude getting his numbers from?
This is FDA compliance checks. 12.2% in failed inspections - ie sales to minors for tobacco/vape retailers in Columbus.

43/Councilwoman Favor: Increase in the fees - on par with other retailers in Ohio?

44/Next up is presentation from a Chief Health Equity Officer from a center at a university.

45/Western Medical Center at Ohio State University.

46/This guy.

47/Thank god for names on the screen.

48/"Tobacco is the most preventable form"
He's saying tobacco - not cigarettes. FYI, health person dropped FDA and cessation, FDA classifies vaping as tobacco.

49/"The sale of menthol and flavored tobacco in black/brown neighborhoods ... puts at a risk of addiction ... a lifetime of smoking and risk of tobacco

50/"Electronic nicotine delivery systems for nicotine"

51/"Nicotine ... vehicle in which subjected to a lifetime of smoking cigarette ... use of nicotine ... increase youth take up smoking..."

52/Councilman Remy: What does it take to quit smoking?

53/Public health commissioner: "It depends ont he individual...
-Drops all the FDA approved ones
-"When we talk to people who were successful ... their inner (something) ... and the quit cold turkey"

54/Commissioner: It's no different than when people want to lose weight...

55/Next up is economic development director with Ice Miller...

56/Does data policy work.

57/He's got a presentation:
-High concentration of tobacco retailers near:
-Schools
-Low income areas
-Black communities
-Poor health outcomes

58/

60/On that graph -high concentrations of retailers in red areas; low concentrations of retailers in green

61/Retailers versus schools.
Schools = green; retailers = red

Income and retailers. Low income = dark purple; light purple = high income

63/And black neighboorhoods (dark purple) and retailers.

64/Asthma and tobacco retailers...

65/Heart disease
"not as much dark purple

66/COPD

67/Diabetes

68/Zoomed in schools;
Champion Middle School in NE side.

69/Other one is on the west side.

70/More schools and retailers.

71/More retailers

72/

73/

74/

75/Summarizing the points he said at the beginning.

76/Councilmember Favor: "Systemic issues that lead to these poor health issues ... is no longer a problem because it's 2022, but I can't help, when I look at those maps, but also see redlining maps."

77/Favor: "Overlaying where those concentrations are mirrors almost exactly with the redlining maps of Columbus ... why are tobacco retailers concentrated in low income communities if this isn't a health equity issue?"

78/Commissioner Roberts: Agrees with redlining argument; brings up all the "social determinents" of health

79/Health Commissioner: "I feel these tobacco retailers intentionally place themselves in these neighborhoods because they know they can make money"

80/Council president: brings up how healthy foods aren't found in those same neighboorhoods.
Commissioner: Many of these are food deserts

81/Public health commissioner wants the retailers to trade off tobacco products for healthier products...

82/Council president: "I don't believe that banning a substance that someone is addicted to is the stop ... cessation ... important component"

83/Council president wants to know how to help adults quit smoking...

84/Commissioner drops the "Bags for Cash" program - dunno what that is, but is wanting the city to pay to incentivize people to stop smoking.

85/Councilmember Brown: "The only way is to stop the sale.."
Drops the maps data.
"We've got to think of cessation for the here and now"

86/Brown: The best way to stop a smoking addiction is to get in the way of ever [needing it]
(That doesn't address the adults who smoke)

87/Councilmember Favor: "We all have a role to play in eliminating systemic racism in our community ..."
-And we've got Big Tobacco dropped (1)

88/Favor: "We've heard a diminishing of this not being a public health crisis"

89/Councilmember: Do we have data on other flavored tobacco? Dips, chews..

90/Nearly 100 tweets later and we're finally at the public testimony. Everyone gets three minutes.

91/There are 50 speakers tonight! Let's keep track of yea vs nay folks.

92/First up is Dr. Nick Kristolass (sp) ... Mount Caramel health system dude. (Nay)

93/He's dropping the smoking-related ills. (Y'all know all of this)
-"Remains one of the leading causes of preventable deaths"
-Note he is saying "Tobacco use" not cigarettes

94/But now he's dropping "smoking-related diseeases"

95/"Nicotine exposure in adolesence ... cognitivie impairment and psychological disorders ... teenagers develop nicotine dependence more easily"
Holy fuck on this fear mongering sentence.

96/And we've got diacetyl and formaldehyde dropped... but he did say that formaldehyde is when the unit overheats...

97/Lung injuries, seizures, nicotine addiction, heart disease and strokes...
-Young peolpe vaping 4x odds to go onto traditional cigarettes...

98/Not in Ohio yo.

99/Favor: Why are young folks moving from vaping to cigarettes if it tastes better?

100/Dr dude: What the next step in the process [of craving nicotine] is cigarettes.

101/They're moving to cigarettes in places where they ban flavored vapes.

102/Didn't get the president's comment; but here is this doctor dude talking about chemicals in vaping that aren't seen in smoking...
"The flavor is what they want ... with the nicotine ...

103/Next witness is up - Dr. Laura Espibell (sp)

104/This is a doctor (nay)

105/"Tobacco companies use flavors to entice the most vulnerable ...
-Menthol cigarettes to get new smokers

106/Drops tobacco companies using sale price discounts and samples to black communities (they did that in all communities yo)

107/Dropping the youth using flavored tobacoc products.

108/Personal story time: 11 year old boy came in with a cough... apparently just started vaping (in 6th grade)
Speaker asks when did he start - get this, kid responds: "Well, all of my friends are doing it"

109/"Nicotine is extremely dangerous and harmful to our children .."

110/Next up is Dr. Joshua Joseph
"scientist as well as a physician"
"lot a great data presented tonight"
(Nay)

111/Drops that the leading cause of preventable death is "smoking" but then turns around and says "flavored tobacco"

112/Dude is saying that kids are saying that flavors are why they use them.
-Drops JUUL pod "has as much nicotine as 20 cigarettes"

113/"Critical to consider a ban on these harmful products"

114/Apparently this guy had a patient that used nicorette gum and was successful. Good for ya dude, you met the 2% of adults who that has worked with.

115/We have to prevent individuals from starting smoking...
Hate to break it to you, smoking is increasing states with flavor bans.

116/Councilmbr Favor: Wants to know more about JUUL.

117/Witness: "That [e-cigarette] juice damages the heart etc..."

118/Next up is John Ratuno (sp) - retired ATF agent and teaches at college

119/"I've listened to all the data and the experts and I agree with all they say ... I just want you to consider all these things ... the criminal element"

120/Gangs are using menthol cigarettes;
"Drugs, gangs, guns it all comes together"
"If you're going to do this, consider what the criminal element is going to do"

121/"They'll either go to a neighboring state that doesn't have the law ... or they will [make menthol cigarette] ... or better yet, we'll have Russia, China, Mexico ... importing this stuff into our country."

122/This dude got an applause from the room.

123/Favor: When you say they, who are you referring to?
ATF dude (btw a yea) means the criminal element.
FYI, they had 3 ban proponents before the first opponent tonight.

124/Pro Tempore Brown: "Divert their pretty lucrative drug sales on loose cigarette sales on what type of a margin"
Apparently this councilmember doesn't understand that cigarettes are easier to get than drugs. Regardless of profit margins.

125/Next witness: Kenny Hampton; African American Male Awareness Health Agency... (I may have got that messed up)

126/This due is a nay (ie for the ban)
"The epidemic preying on our children"
So nay - 4
Yea (against) - 1

127/Next witness, Leanne Wheeler, in support. (5-1)
I think she's a teacher as she said something about Bulldogs

128/Father smoked; uncle died from lung cancer; grandma died from lung cancer.
Grandma smoked Pall Mall reds; Dad smoked Lucky Strikes; her mom smoked Salems.

129/In support of banning the sale of flavored nicotine "no matter the delivery system"

130/"Federal government enacted the Tobacco Control Act in 2009 ... if you started a business after that, you did it at a a risk."

131/Next up is Abdula Chowdry
Family owns 10 stores in Columbus with 37 employees.

132/Against ban (5-2)
"In addition to tobacco we also sell other staples ... fresh fruits ... my adult customers will go elsewhere ... reduce my employees' hours and potentially lay off some of my employees"

133/"Tobacco is the most regulated product in my stores"
True statement. Alcohol isn't even regulated like this.

134/"I urge you to work with all ... let's find a solution together."

135/Addresses the data mapping
-Who approved those licenses?
-What about population density
(I love this dude)

136/He got an applause as well.

137/Favor: Addressing "zoning" issue - wants to update zoning code ... "when you talk about systemic issues that we're trying to eradicate ... that negative history is associated with zoning..."

138/Next witness. Dr. Yeager who is with an African American tobacco group and with our favorite UCSF! For the ban (6-2)

139/Dropping the tobacco documents her and Stanton got.
"Predatory nature"

140/Drops all the CTFK language; preyed on minorities; low income; tobacco companies spend millions for misinformation (ya mean Bloomberg)

141/"Please join us as we save lives"

142/Councilmember wants the economic data on the impact of flavored bans.

143/UCSF doctor: Retailers havent lost revenue
"Tobacco companies introducing alternatives"

144/Next witness: Human Chandra (sp) - against ban. (6-3) Brings up how folks can just drive out of Columbus.
"Bring back stuff and sell it..."

145/This guy stores scans IDs to prevent youth sales.

146/Talking about how kids get tobacco/vape products and brings up straw purchases
"they sit out side and look for like a homeless person to buy it for them"

147/Honestly, we should go more in on that point as shutting down businesses leads to more homeless people.

148/Next up is Amanda Turner - Preventing Tobacco Addiction Coalition/T-21; kid goes to Columbus schools

149/Obviously for the ban. (7-3)
She's doing the puffs math and said the the disposable is like 30x more than the cigarettes.

150/Went to a vape shop and apparently got a free product...

151/Next up is Reaon's Jacob Rich. Obvs on our side. And he's a reseacher in Cleveland.

152/"There is not much evidence that comprehensive flavor bans reduce ... use"

153/A menthol ban will overwhelmingly allow white people to smoke their cigarettes

154/More people smoke non-flavored cigarettes both youth and adults; nonflavored cigarettes more addictive

155/Dropping the Massachusetts ban.

156/"Massachusetts has already conducted multiple raids ... mostly in communities of color."
-Gets applause-

157/Favor wants Jacob's testimony.

158/Next up is Rob Crane, family physician; board chair of Tobacco 21. For the ban. (8-4)

159/Dropping the indoor smoking ban.

160/I don't think it's fair to compare indoor smoking bans to full on flavor bans. Rather, compare it to the Volkstead Act yo.

161/"Terrifying, national epidemic of youth nicotine use"
(Yo gotta be kidding me)

162/Now dropping T-21... comparing that to the indoor ban
"Can you please lay off our teens"

163/"Only please can you take the candy out ... that entices our kids..."

164/The proponents are now doing applauses. This is going to get fun.

165/Next up is Julius Jenkins. High school junior from the Eastside. Grandparents, aunts/uncles smoked/still smoke

166/He's for the ban. (9-4)

167/Next witness, Michael Coleman, attorney at Vice More and is here for our favorite - Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids

168/Brings up redlining sign that he saw on his way to the hearing.

169/"This is the new redlining..."
(More white people in America smoke yo)

170/It's CTFK, so 10 in favor; 4 against have spoken so far.

171/"It's a fear tactic ... this is not a criminal ordinance ... this is a civil ordinance .. there is a fine, this is not a crime ... It not a crime to possess, to use, to buy these flavored tobacco products.
"It is not a crime, it is a fine"

172/"This is an epidemic"

173/Next up is Dustin Hoffinger(sp) ... from the American Heart Association (Bloomberg funded totally for the ban - 11-4)

174/Personal story time!
-Great grandfather was the only smoker until 2000 when this dude started smoking.

175/Started dipping at 14/15 - went to college and took up smoking. Quit smoking in 2017. Joined American Heart Association in 2019.

176/The only thing worse than a never smoker is a former smoker that quit cold turkey.

177/Okay. Bathroom time so a quick break. Not going to get the next person's name.

178/Missed out on how a "product like e-cigarettes" is going to kill you.

180/Next up. Can't even try spelling her name.

181/From a community health center - for the ban. (12-4)

182/Going on menthol being used to hide the taste of tobacco.

183/Alright totally messed up this dude. He's against flavored shisha... Omar Hassan. (13-4)

184/Honestly couldn't tell if he was for it or against it until he started talking mouth piece.

185/Didn't get this guys' name, but 40 year law enforcement official and father.

186/"Prohibition doesn't work ... supply and demand ... it's not going to be regulated, quality..."

187/Brings up son's friends - no smoke, but they use cannabis

188/"At what time is the government going to say, 'Okay, you have a choice.'"

189/Btw, we're at 13 for and 5 against that have spoken so far. That's 19, plus they've called about 4-5 folks that aren't there so we're almost halfway done!

190: Favor: "This ... will not criminalize ... individual behavior"

191/Next up is State lawmaker Ray Meyer (?)

192/Speaking like a lawmaker as all he has talked about is this TV interview he just did.

193/"My face to face involvement, personal knowledge..."
(Again, total lawmaker)

194/"Do you see what our colleagues did in California yesterday ... justice is on our side .. fairness is on our side..."
(Hmm, not allowing adults to access safer alternatives to cigarettes doesn't seem fair to me)

195/Next up is Megan Kissel, with CTFK. (15-5)
"This is an epidemic"

196/She's saying that 1-4 HS in Ohio use e-cigarettes. These are the real numbers. Fucking CTFK liars.

197/Worried about her kid not knowing the difference of cotton candy candy and cotton candy vaping...

198/"This is not a cessation device"
Well, go figure, your organization is making sure it's not available at all.

Pastor Victor. In favor. 16-5

200/Brings up secondhand smoked "laced with flavors"

201/Next witness - Sadarshan Piako (sp on all of it)...mental health researcher and social worker - at Ohio State University - for the ban (17-5)

202/"I'm a community person ... a single mom comes to me and says that 'my 14 year old child is addicted to smoking"
Wanted to find out how they got into it, apparently they got it for free walking to school.
(This is one of the worst anecdotal stories)

203/Next witness - (after three wre apparently no shows) - Julia Applegate. LGBTQ public health advocate. Lost grandparents to "tobacco-related illness" and has kids. Obvs for. 17-5

204/Edits - 18-5

205/Dropping the bit that flavors are "intentionally to appeal to kids ... hides the harsh flavor and burning sensation of tobacco."

206/And apparently, there is only one councilmember in this hearing. So, after listening to 17 pro-ban folks and only 5 against, Columbus City Council is out. Love how they kept bringing up how they're open about it.

207/Back to Julia - she dropped the LGBTQ stuff.
"Addiction is not liberation"

208/And we've got Jasper Singleton talking about youth. For the ban - 19-5.

209/FYI. This is the chamber. The only lawmaker there is the lady in the front (Favor)

210/This guy is dropping how kids are using other products. Edibles, drugs, alcohol.

211/"With over 80% of my peers [reporting they first used flavored tobacco products]"
Really dude, YOUR peers? You do that survey?

212/Favor's gotta make up for a lack of councilmembers and wants to know what an 18 and 17 year old think they should do.
"We beleieve in the ban of flavored sales ... this is very harmful and not the target audience you're trying to reach."

213/Favor: "I'm very proud of both of you ... engaging in the civic process."
FYI folks, these are youths that think government should ban stuff.

214/Next up is Jamie Hall - hey, I know this fella. Finally one on our side.

215/Smoked for over 20 years, tried everything to quit and nothing worked until flavored vape products.
Owns a vape shop in Columbus, employ 9 people; paid wages during entire shutdown.

216/99% of what is sold is flavored products
"It wouldn't just affect the bottom line, we'd be forced to close."

217/BTW, I'm counting the last speakers as two. So we're at 20-6.

218/Recommendations from Jamie:
-Third party age verification
-Meaningful fines/penalities; 3 strikes and your out - "All those are great"

219/"We all have the same goal, to keep kids away from tobacco products."

220: Favor: You and your wife have been pleasant to deal with in offering tangible feedback.
(way to go Jamie!)

221/Next up is a person representing the pediatricians...

223/Thanks "councilmembers" you mean "council member"

224/Dropping CDC and cigarette numbers; started before 18, etc.

225/Youth are more prone to addiction; "availabilty of flavors is among the most prominently cited reasons to use e-cigarettes"
Where are they getting these numbers?!?

226/Since my colorful graphs aren't good enough. Here's the original data source.

227/Now dropping COVID 19 and substance use among adolescents.
(Let's talk about increases in youth overdoses - while vaping is decreasing lady.)

228/Next up is Leo with American Cancer Society... (22-6)

229/And here is the Ohio numbers for reasons for e-cigarette use for 2021.

230/Dropping how kids are using flavored tobacco products - note not why they're using them.
Drops the "internal tobacco industry documents"
"Aggressive use of flavors and marketing practices ... underregulation of these products requires Columbus ... to take action."

231/Dropping the other flavor bans. Again, smoking is increasing in those places...

232/Next up is Zack Boyer with an LGBTQ center. For the ban (23-6)

233/"We can look back to the mid-90s ... project Scum"
Subculture urban marketing by Reynolds.

234/Brings up health equity

235/Next up is Chris Hudgins who is virtually presenting (I didn't know we could do that)

236/Producer of hookah tobacco; board of national community hookah association. Against hookah being included as he just called the California ban an "important step."
Come on dude, quit throwing us under the bus.

237/Gonna make me see if there are concentrations of hookah places in Columbus in the same places that tobacco retailers are.

238/I'm gonna put him on our side.. only because we're getting our butt kicked. (23-7)

239/Note, still only one councilmembers here...

240/Next up is John Scott. Brings up how they "lost some council members"
Favor: "50 speakers will do that to you"
Didn't y'all spend a good portion talking about how open you were...

241/Back to John - "those who can't quit will just switch to regular tobacco."

242/Drops how FDA has found e-cigarettes to be less harmful than combustible cigarettes.

243/Brings up how youth are using alcohol in greater percentages and that there are fines for underage alcohol use but not for vapes.

244/Next up is Frankie Madosky (sp)
HS senior.
"I'm surrounded by minors who abuse flavored nicotine products"

245/Drops "Vuse, Elf Bars, Hydes"
Oh, the brands the CDC tracks?

246/Bringing up the youth and brain.
"The remaining age for vaping is 18 and over..."
(No, it's 21)

247/"People are tired of Truth."
Thank you kiddo! I may love you for that one.

248/Next up. Dottie Flanagan. Middle school principal. For the ban. (25-8)

249/"Children who vape more likely to experience reduced instruction time...
Children they have caught vaping have been "victims of trauma" issues of anxiety...

250/Oh, the number 1 reason in the 2021 NYTS for youth e-cigarette use among current users.

251/Parents have purchased vapes for their middle school students?!? What in the actual eff??

252/Btw, two weeks ago, Columbus City Council was like:

253/During hearing - only one member is there!

254/Next up is a former law enforcement dude Elliot talking about the illicit market. Against the ban.
(25-9)

255/Brings up gun violence caused by gangs/criminal activity and that young black men are more likely to die from gun violence than smoking.

256/Brings up compliance...

257/Next up is John Hicks. Middle school counselor... Totally for the ban. (26-9)

258/"Asking the why and the how are these things getting into the hands of our young people.."

257/Talking about how vaping is easy to hide. "It can be in plain site"

258/Next up is another pastor. Seems like he's for it as he's "concerned about protecting the youth."

259/"Highly addictive flavored tobacco products is a problem for us."
(27-9)

260/Next up is Mary Spiers. Store manager of a Columbus retailer. Against the ban. (27-10_

261/Will lose employees. Brings up alcohol numbers. Offers solutions - licenses; education

262/Next up is the OHVTA president Scott Eley. Totally against it!

263/I love how he is dropping the numbers!

264/"We have nearly eliminated youth vaping and smoking ... we should be celebrating.."

265/Brings up youth cannabis use, which is higher.

266/"Prohibition has never worked and will never work, even if it's funded by billionaire Michael Bloomberg"

267/Next up is a PAVE (dude?!?)

268/We're at 28-11

269/I really want to just turn this off.
"Hook them on a lifetime of nicotine addiction"

270/"This is a legacy policy that all of Ohio will follow."

271/Only two more left!

272/Carol Macgruder - she flew in from California - African American tobacco control group. Gardiner is with them. Bloomberg funding must be nice to fly from CA to OH the night before ;)

273/"Everyone is looking at your city ... were are with you ... we will [be using Bloomberg money to] be bringing you more information"

274/Next up is Alisha Hopkins, nurse practioner with the Breathing Association (?)

275/Drops how e-cigarettes are eroding the progress of tobacco control.
What does tobacco control want?

276/Candy flavored nicotine... ugh.

277/And we've made it to the end my friends. Totals:
30 for the ban; 11 against. Several folks that didn't make it.

278/Favor: "Columbus city council is looking foward to capturing all the feedback..."
You don't say... here's the progression of all the members that were present for the evening. They left!
#ColumbusOH