Thread by @FourthWaver

AGP INTRO THREAD:

The following is a series of threads exploring autogynephilia (AGP), outlining the 4 types, and giving some examples. I was inspired to make this thread w/ examples from /r/MTF posts after re-reading 'Men Trapped in Men's Bodies' (HIGHLY recommend it).

These examples (except when specifically indicated) were gathered by me from the subreddit /r/MTF within the past month (October 2022). I have annotated most of the gathered examples to indicate precisely where the accounts align w/ the theory.

I have left these example posts unredacted. They likely remain searchable.

***PLEASE DO NOT contact the reddit accounts associated with these posts!***

Reddit posts are public (partly why I chose to leave users unredacted) but harassment is not acceptable. Please, just don't.

Main reason they're unredacted was to undercut claims that I somehow manufactured these examples. Leaving them as-is allows them to be searchable by doubters.

I’m sure that will still not satisfy some, but c'est la vie.

This thread will be LONG but I will try to be concise.

My central goal is to leave every person reading with a more thorough understanding of AGP and its links to gender dysphoria + trans IDs.

As I am not a professional in this area, please understand my knowledge of this is almost certainly imperfect.

I will rely heavily on the work of Blanchard + Anne Lawrence, w/ Levine, Docter, and a few others from the same research area sprinkled in throughout. I will also be--

--using very precise, clinical language throughout the thread(s). I apologize for any offense this causes, but compromising on this point would risk creating too much confusion.

In anticipation of future comments -- yes, I do think that all (or, practically all) non-homosexual TIMs are AGP. AFAIK, the existing research points in this direction.

Gay TIMs cannot be AGP. There are also TIMs who ID as bisexual, and some may be.

But, re: Blanchard, this is *often not true bisexuality but a "pseudo-bisexuality," where any attraction to other men is *actually chasing affirmation of their female identity.

As far as researchers have been able to find, AGP occurs exclusively amongst otherwise heterosexual men.

AGP attraction is in competition with heterosexual attraction. Blanchard pointed out that there is a documented pattern of new love/relationships causing 'remission' in AGP.

While their heterosexual attraction is satisfied, the AGP attraction recedes. Importantly, though, it always returns--typically when the rush of the relationship wears off.

Thus, men who come out as women during their wife's pregnancy, when sex is probably less frequent and--

--the man is getting less attention than he has in the past.

This also explains relationships that go on for years, or decades, before the man admits to "having always been a girl." That is a much kinder + easier way of understanding the truth -- that he's become bored and--

--as a result, his AGP attraction to himself has returned.

In some ways, it's akin to cheating. I use that example not to pass moral judgment, but to make the scenario more understandable. This makes sense, generally, based on what we know of non-AGP male behavior.

For instance, male interest in their female partners decreases over the progression of pregnancy. 1 in 10 men cheat during a pregnancy. It's not specious to connect this to the trend of AGP men who suddenly "find themselves" when their wife is expecting.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…

But, however AGP manifests itself, the odds are stacked against it changing. Multiple studies have shown – especially in human males – that such sexual identities are concrete at a young age and remain largely unchanged over the course of a person’s life.

At this point, there may also be young boys who have been ‘transed’ as children who may be heterosexual WITHOUT co-existing AGP.

This is AFAIK unaddressed, probably because it would be a VERY new phenom, if it exists.

I do genuinely think that increasing knowledge about AGP will benefit AGP men.

That is not the primary reason I am interested in this topic, to be clear. But it is *one of my motivations, and not an insignificant one.

I do not think men with a kink for women’s clothes should be pushed to irreversibly alter themselves.

I do not think a climate which can induce gender dysphoria in men who did not experience it for decades is necessarily a positive one.

I do not have all the answers for how men with AGP should be clinically approached, but I do rely on the expertise and clinical experience of Blanchard and Lawrence, who would seem to agree with my above assessment.

Lawrence: “I would simply like to state for the record that, based on my clinical experience and my reading of the scientific literature, I am firmly convinced that the overwhelming majority—probably 98% or more—of cases of severe gender dysphoria in men arise in connection with-

"-either effeminate homosexuality or autogynephilia; most of the rare exceptions probably arise in connection with conditions such as schizophrenia and certain personality disorders.

"The idea that substantial numbers of MtF transsexuals belong to a putative "third type"-

"-that is neither homosexual nor autogynephilic is inconsistent with my clinical experience and is, in my opinion, inconsistent with the best available empirical evidence." (Lawrence, MTIWB p.16)

To condense what Lawrence said ➡️

There is no evidence that ANY trans-identified male is part of a third diagnostic type -- TIMs are either HSTS (homosexual) or AGP.

This clashes with the unsubstantiated TRA claims of an 'inner gender' or 'internal gender identity' unrelated to either AGP or HSTS phenom.

Furthermore, the sharp distinction between HSTS and AGP TIMs is not unnoticed, even by them.

Note this post, which is almost comical in its ability to miss the forest for the trees:

Safe to say, those TIMs who "vehemently deny having [arousal at the thought of being a woman]" are either HSTS, or lying.*

*This includes both purposeful deception AND self-deception so extreme that the person no longer realizes they are lying.

All of this upfront – here is the thread.

I am very open to questions, comments, concerns. If this thread viscerally upset you and you’d like to leave me an obnoxious masculine screed, please direct it to my e-mail [e-mail] 😊

And here is the link to the core thread:

https://twitter.com/FourthWaver/status/1592877146749403138?s=20&t=4YC_gDZ5IAA8opgDsSchiQ