Thread by @FourthWaver

AGP CORE THREAD:

➡️ What is AGP?

Autogynephilia is "the love of oneself as a woman."

It is conceptualized best as a sexuality (can also be thought of as a paraphilia) that exists in some hetero males.

I personally think that recognizing AGP is a *sexuality helps to explain many of the deeply-held feelings about it that you’ll encounter.

Lawrence: "…a man’s erotic desire to turn his body into a facsimile of a female body eventually gives rise to a strongly held--

"--highly valued cross-gender identity and the process by which that new identity—that image of himself as a female—becomes the focus of his desire, admiration, idealization, attachment, and love—the same emotions that he might experience for an actual female partner."

Some describe AGP as what the ‘old-school transvestites’ were. While mostly true, this is underinclusive – some AGP does not involve cross-dressing.

There are 4 core types of AGP:
(1) transvestic,
(2) anatomic,
(3) physiologic,
(4) behavioral.

There is also a subtype --

-- sometimes misleadingly called a 'fifth type' -- best known as 'partial anatomic autogynephilia' or 'partial AGP.' I will discuss this under anatomic AGP, since that makes it less confusing.

These categories CAN and DO overlap. It is common to have more than one form of AGP.

Re: Lawrence, "most individuals who experience anatomic [AGP] also experience transvestic and behavioral [AGP]."

AGP men want to BECOME the object of their own sexual desires. Often, they will describe this as "not being sure if I wanted to fuck her or be her."

This can manifest benignly – an AGP with a kink for redheaded women will almost certainly end up as a transwoman with red hair, for ex.

This can also lead to the age-inappropriate behaviors seen in some TIMs - e.g. grown men 'identifying' as young girls--

--dressing in a way wildly discordant with how women the man’s age dress; adopting childish mannerisms, etc.) - because the men exhibiting those behaviors are attracted to those pedophilic or pseudo-pedophilic depictions.

That's why their 'female identity' exhibits those traits.

Another core concept is that of "euphoria."

Sometimes used in the shockingly honest phrase, "euphoria boners," TIMs use this word to encompass a range of positive emotions but, most often, they are referring to a low-level erotic buzz. This buzz can result in explicit arousal.

More 'euphoria' posts:

Often, euphoria is derived from validation of the female identity. Because AGP men are sexually interested in themselves as a woman, validation of their female identity would be akin to the person that you're hitting on flirting back with you.

Obviously, the answers to questions like "are you aroused by thinking of yourself as a woman?" can be fudged...to a point.

The fact that men can + will lie about their arousal is compensated for by conducting studies involving penile blood flow measurements. More on this later.

You will also commonly hear "[uncomfortable activity] actually brings me comfort/relaxation."

Docter* (*person’s name, not misspelling) was skeptical of reports by hetero cross-dressers that habitual cross-dressing (e.g., underneath male clothing) is eventually experienced as--

--relaxing or calming rather than sexually arousing:
". . . [a]nother hypothesis would be that the mild sexual arousal that may accompany concealed fetishistic cross dressing is subjectively interpreted as calming despite what may be mild physiological arousal."

As noted by Lawrence, "Docter's hypothesis is consistent with the observation by Blanchard et al. (1986) that nonhomosexual cross-dressing men who deny experiencing sexual arousal in association with cross-dressing nevertheless display physiological genital arousal."

It is important to note that both alleged and actual discomfort with sexual arousal among AGP men is well-documented.

This does NOT mean that AGP is therefore not sexual.

Here's some /r/MTF examples:

The discomfort stems primarily from the fact that genital arousal shatters the central illusion of the fantasy which aroused them in the first place -- i.e., that they are a woman.

Women don't have penises -- they subconsciously know -- so a boner kinda ruins the effect.

However, discomfort with one's sexuality or sexual fantasies is not uncommon in general, and manifests at different intensities in different people.

As a clunky example -- a woman who feels disgust at her attraction to women is not thusly unattracted to them. She is still OSA.

So it is with AGP men -- just because they are uncomfortable, or even distressed, by their sexual desires, does not mean that they are therefore *not AGP or *not aroused.

Through their own posts, you can see the sorts of rationalizations many TIMs have constructed to whitewash their arousal. You can also see the deep cognitive dissonance required to pretend arousal ISN'T arousal.

Examples:

More examples of rationalization:

Even more examples (sorry - brevity is my strong suit 😬):

Final 'rationalization of arousal' images:

Some AGP men are more easily able to handwave away their arousal than others. Some AGP men are more uncomfortable with their arousal.

Buhrich (1978) noted that hetero cross-dressing men sometimes experience their sexual arousal associated with cross-dressing as unwanted.

Blanchard + Clemmenson found that more than half of the men with the most intense gender dysphoria reported that they had sometimes been sexually aroused when cross-dressing during the past year.

In that same study, just under one-half reported that they had at least occasionally masturbated when cross-dressing during the past year.

Look again--roughly 1 in 2 TIMs from that study admitted to masturbating from their cross-dressing *in the past year.* Imagine the real %.

Interestingly, there is a documented pattern of TIMs indicating intense changes in dysphoria and in desire to transition after orgasm.

See the excerpts from MTIMB below:

Similar accounts are easily found on /r/MTF.

Here are a few:

It is a well-known argument that transitioning “cannot” be sexual because transitioning will often destroy/impede sexual function.

This is, again, not true. There are fetishes and paraphilias for all manner of self-destructive behaviors.

This is a narrative collected by Lawrence. The narrative writer identifies as both trans and AGP. Note the ending.

*To clarify -- despite being in 3rd person, this account was written by the subject of the story, in his own words.

"His first conscious memory of wanting to wear girls’ clothing occurred when he was age 6 . . . The fantasy of doing so felt both exciting and shameful.

"By the age of 8, he fantasized about being a girl and wearing girls’ clothing nearly every night as he lay in bed."

"Whenever he did this, his penis became erect. He didn’t understand why this happened, and he didn’t like it.

"He found photographs of women’s and girls’ clothes in magazines and catalogs; he fantasized about wearing these pretty clothes."

"He fantasized about having long hair and being treated like a girl and having a girl’s name; these fantasies also made his penis become erect.

"He was ashamed of having a penis and wanted it gone."

"He fantasized about having an operation to remove his penis; ironically, this also caused his penis to become erect."

(Lawrence, MTIMB p.4)

**Note -- even the thought of complete castration was experienced, ironically, as arousing; and this arousal was reported as unwanted despite its persistence in the act which was repeatedly sought out.

Finally, it is also important to note that there is strong evidence that males who claim to have NEVER felt sexual arousal related to AGP behaviors and fantasies are not reporting honestly, whether on purpose or out of self-deception.

See attached sections from MTIMB below.

The existence of AGP does NOT mean that "gender dysphoria" -- extreme discomfort with one's birth sex, akin to body dysmorphia -- is not real.

On the contrary, Lawrence discusses how gender dysphoria operates as the flip side of the 'cross-gender identity' coin.

That is to say - men who pervasively and/or habitually visualize themselves as women for erotic stimulation will often become emotionally attached to that image. This aids in the development of a cross-gender identity, which will likely increase dysphoria.

In my opinion--

--it is easiest to understand this by conceptualizing AGP as a sexuality, rather than a paraphilia.

In the beginning of a romantic relationship, things are less emotionally connected + more sexual than the same relationship after 30+ years of marriage.

The AGP man has himself as a woman (which eventually becomes a concretized gender identity-a specific woman) as the center of his sexual attraction. Similarly to 'fully' hetero men, the AGP male's libido slows and his emotional connection to his gender ID grows w/ age and time.

This connection with (love for?) the gender identity is sabotaged by the reality that the AGP man is, actually, one human being. It makes sense the more he desires to be w/ the woman he loves, the greater distaste he has for the male body in her place.

Thus, dysphoria increases.

Time to get into the specifics of the 4 types.

Here's the first thread, covering transvestic AGP:

https://twitter.com/FourthWaver/status/1592877765446881280?s=20&t=3Sqh8O5LomMmWxxLG0BdZg