Welcome to a special compensation hearing at the #PostOfficeInquiry at the IDRC in central London. There was a small demo outside by former Subpostmasters and many of those holding the banner in the picture are now in the inquiry room. 
I will be live tweeting proceedings, but if you'd rather watch it online, the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry official youtube channel is here:
youtube.com/channel/UCgijU…
youtube.com/channel/UCgijU…
This morning we'll be hearing from the Post Office and the government, who will attempt to sing the praises of their various compensations schemes, followed by representatives of three groups of Subpostmasters who will tell the inquiry chair the PO/govt has failed abysmally.
If you want to read the written submissions by all the parties speaking today, you can find them here.
postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/hearings/compe…
(Freeths and Paul Marshall are NOT making oral submissions)
postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/hearings/compe…
(Freeths and Paul Marshall are NOT making oral submissions)
A reminder that everything I tweet is a summary and/or paraphrase of what is being said unless it is in "direct quotes".
A full transcript of the hearing will be published on the inquiry website, usually the morning after the day before...
A full transcript of the hearing will be published on the inquiry website, usually the morning after the day before...
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The above website and our podcast is similarly crowdfunded.
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The above website and our podcast is similarly crowdfunded.
@Rebeccathomson_ There is a technical hitch which means the hearing has not started yet.
Quick roll call of those former Subpostmasters present - Jo Hamilton, Lee Castleton, Siema Kamran, Kamran Ashraf, Janet Skinner, Alison Hall, Nicki Arch, Wendy Buffrey, Seema and Davinder Misra, Parmod Kalia, Pete Murray.
People whose livelihoods were wrecked by the Post Office
People whose livelihoods were wrecked by the Post Office
... some of whom spent time in prison, others who escaped prison but lived with criminal convictions, often for more than a decade and those who were sacked, bankrupted and shunned by their communities.
They are a stoic bunch.
They are a stoic bunch.
On the journalism front, m'colleague @Rebeccathomson_ is sitting on my left. On her left is the Daily Mail's senior political correspondent @TomWitherow. @BBCEmmaSimpson was filming outside earlier (v nice lady), as were Fuji TV from Japan. Again, nice chaps and keen...
... to give this story some traction in Japan.
Nick Read, chief executive of the Post Office is here. All the core participants (including Fujitsu who haven't made a statement today and aren't participating).
Nick Read, chief executive of the Post Office is here. All the core participants (including Fujitsu who haven't made a statement today and aren't participating).
The Chair of the inquiry (white hair newly shorn) has come in to ask how long people intend to speak for as the live feed is down.
Estimates:
45 PO
10 BEIS
45 Ed Henry
30 Tim Moloney
45 Sam Stein
Estimates:
45 PO
10 BEIS
45 Ed Henry
30 Tim Moloney
45 Sam Stein
Chair has decided in that case we can wait half an hour to see if the live feed can get fixed.
Sam Stein very keen it is fixed as there are many of his clients at home wanting to watch this.
Sam Stein very keen it is fixed as there are many of his clients at home wanting to watch this.
There is no live streaming as there is an issue with the IDRC's connectivity. The chair has to decided whether or not to go ahead. I think he will. Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC says there will be a transcript uploaded and the proceedings will be recorded and posted.
Sir Wyn Williams (WW) says he would rather go ahead without the live stream than adjourn.
Sam Stein KC (SS) for 100+ SPMs (Subpostmasters) reluctantly agrees.
Sam Stein KC (SS) for 100+ SPMs (Subpostmasters) reluctantly agrees.
PO barrister Kate Gallafent on her feet.
KG grateful for the oppo to update the inquiry. Her oral submission will be related to the conclusions WW made in his last compensation report.
KG grateful for the oppo to update the inquiry. Her oral submission will be related to the conclusions WW made in his last compensation report.
Which you can read here: postofficehorizoninquiry.org.uk/news/sir-wyn-w…
PO says it has exceeded target for percentage of offers made in the Historical Shortfall Scheme (HSS)
The PO has made 2240 offers to applicants 94% of eligible applications. Total value of £74m
75% have been accepted totalling £44m
134 applicants have not been made an offer.
The PO has made 2240 offers to applicants 94% of eligible applications. Total value of £74m
75% have been accepted totalling £44m
134 applicants have not been made an offer.
These cases are complex. Include bankruptcy.
WW asks how many insolvency cases there are in the HSS
PO doesn't know. But will find out.
WW asks how many insolvency cases there are in the HSS
PO doesn't know. But will find out.
PO says applicants who have been prosecuted but NOT convicted is also difficult. The independent advisory panel hopes to make offers next year.
Another area of slowness is getting hold of medical records from the NHS. Or someone is ill and it takes time for them to respond...
Another area of slowness is getting hold of medical records from the NHS. Or someone is ill and it takes time for them to respond...
PO responds to Hudgells point about heads of loss not being identified until after compensation offers were made.
29 applicants have received revised offers after a good faith meeting. None of these people had legal representation.
29 applicants have received revised offers after a good faith meeting. None of these people had legal representation.
100 good faith meetings have been held since the scheme began. 21 are planned. This doesn't happen every time an offer is rejected. An applicant is offered three dates on which they might attend. PO continues to look at ways of streamlining the process.
WW says 100 good faith meetings and 29 had their offers increased afterwards
PO says no... increase could happen before or after as well as because of a good faith meeting.
PO says no... increase could happen before or after as well as because of a good faith meeting.
PO moves on to late applicants (after 27 Nov 2020 when the scheme closed).
PO has now written to all but one of the 230 late applicants and inviting them to join the scheme.
On 12 Oct the HSS website was updated to help late applicants.
PO has now written to all but one of the 230 late applicants and inviting them to join the scheme.
On 12 Oct the HSS website was updated to help late applicants.
As yesterday 93 formal late applications with 66 having full information. 27 of the late applications are partially complete and the PO is following it up.
No late applications have been provisionally declined on the basis that there hasn't been a good reason for not applying in time. Does not expect that to happen going forward.
WW asks if this is not all just a great rigamarole
WW asks if this is not all just a great rigamarole
especially if they're all going to be accepted.
PO says it's a line that might be needed to be added.
WW says speed is a priority in this
PO says it's a line that might be needed to be added.
WW says speed is a priority in this
PO accepts.
PO turns to legal advice and assistance. PO has been offering to pay reasonable legal costs of those who have complex applications.
PO turns to legal advice and assistance. PO has been offering to pay reasonable legal costs of those who have complex applications.
Since 10 Oct there have been 29 requests for legal fees. Wants to standardise costs claims. As of yesterday they have agreement with Hudgells on test cases. Hoping to do the same with other reps.
PO will be keeping under review its policy on interim payments for those...
PO will be keeping under review its policy on interim payments for those...
... in financial difficulty or in ill health. Sum of £30k will be given and this will not be clawed back even if the final offer is lower.
Or it will make a payment of 50% of the offer.
PO turns to overturned historical convictions. 83 have been overturned. 82 cases have applied for interim payments. 79 cases have been offered, accepted in 77 with 2 pending. The remaining four cases are the "public interest only"
PO turns to overturned historical convictions. 83 have been overturned. 82 cases have applied for interim payments. 79 cases have been offered, accepted in 77 with 2 pending. The remaining four cases are the "public interest only"
cases (Teju, Parmod and Vipin) and the one who doesn't want an interim payment.
The combined value of the interim payments is just short of £11m
The combined value of the interim payments is just short of £11m
Re the 3 "public interest only" cases. We will go with Hudgells to independent mediation to resolve these disputes.
PO you (WW) said PO should not be the final arbiter in such cases. It agrees.
PO you (WW) said PO should not be the final arbiter in such cases. It agrees.
Those prosecuted and acquitted who weren't part of the GLO will go through the HSS. Those who were part of the GLO will go through the govt's GLO scheme.
PO has reached full and final settlement with 2 claimants who had their convictions overturned.
(no total sum given)
8 others have been offered non-pecuniary elements of their claims.
(no total sum given)
£4.23m offered to 33 others
(no total sum given)
8 others have been offered non-pecuniary elements of their claims.
(no total sum given)
£4.23m offered to 33 others
PO has now paid £3.1m in final comp excluding interim.
PO would like all potential claimants (in the cohort of those who have had their convictions quashed) to come forward as soon as possible.
PO would like all potential claimants (in the cohort of those who have had their convictions quashed) to come forward as soon as possible.
Of bankrupt claimants who have overturned convictions - this has been raised at Treasury level. PO does not think there should be any delay to non-pecuniary losses.
WW are there points of legal principle in respect of persons who have been made bankrupt?
WW are there points of legal principle in respect of persons who have been made bankrupt?
PO opinions differ and there is one estate taking a different view to the views taken by others. There is a legal dispute.
WW there is? I'm only musing aloud, but I might take my own legal advice about this.
PO we would not seek to dissuade you.
WW there is? I'm only musing aloud, but I might take my own legal advice about this.
PO we would not seek to dissuade you.
PO pecuniary loss claims are compelx. To maintain the momentum we are looking at making partial settlements. More broadly the Post Office is in active discussions with claimant reps.
PO - Howe and Co say the scheme development has caused delay. But if we look at Hudgells...
PO - Howe and Co say the scheme development has caused delay. But if we look at Hudgells...
... we can see the lack of a formal scheme is no impediment to delay.
PO I would also like to reiterate to convicted SPMs to consider their options for appeal. We have tried to contact and encourage them to do so. In Feb this year there was a BEIS select committee...
PO I would also like to reiterate to convicted SPMs to consider their options for appeal. We have tried to contact and encourage them to do so. In Feb this year there was a BEIS select committee...
... recommendation that an independent body helps SPMs try to appeal their conviction as many might not want for understandable reasons want to work with the Post Office. We are now working with Citizens Advice who have set up a microsite and are publicising this...
... through their channels.
[it is a big deal that many people with convictions either cannot be contact, or are too scared, tired, old or ill to come forward to get their convictions quashed - the PO thinks there are at least 700 false prosecutions - so far we only have 83...
[it is a big deal that many people with convictions either cannot be contact, or are too scared, tired, old or ill to come forward to get their convictions quashed - the PO thinks there are at least 700 false prosecutions - so far we only have 83...
... quashed]
WW asks if the CCRC may not be the quickets and easiest route for getting a conviction quashed. Presumably the quickest thing to do is apply out of time?
PO will defer to TIm Moloney
TM you are right sir - straight to the CoA is the quickest way...
WW asks if the CCRC may not be the quickets and easiest route for getting a conviction quashed. Presumably the quickest thing to do is apply out of time?
PO will defer to TIm Moloney
TM you are right sir - straight to the CoA is the quickest way...
PO as of 6 Dec there are 72 HSS applications in which either PO understands the course of action vests in the insolvency practitioner or its unclear. Also 10 of the 30 dissolved company applications that also involve insolvency and bankrupcty issues.
WW this seems to be...
WW this seems to be...
... quite a difficult problem and we want to solve it.
PO we share that.
PO Howe and Co have raised the issue of restorative justice. The PO does not need a formal scheme to allow its senior executives to meet former SPMs and talk to them.
PO we share that.
PO Howe and Co have raised the issue of restorative justice. The PO does not need a formal scheme to allow its senior executives to meet former SPMs and talk to them.
Howe and Co are now suggesting a restorative justice fund which we think goes beyond the inquiry's remit.
Mark Chapman on his feet for BEIS.
Mark Chapman on his feet for BEIS.
BEIS are the govt's Business Department now run by Grant Shapps.
The Dept wishes to begin by reiterating its commitment to ensuring SPMs receive full and fair compensation as a key ministerial priority. It has listened to concerns about compensation arrangements and taken action where necessary. We think we are now on teh right...
... trajectory, but we welcome your views.
First the HSS - it is a scheme designed, established and adminsitered by the PO. The Dept has some levers of influence. It set targets for the PO. With some regret, PO will not meet them.
First the HSS - it is a scheme designed, established and adminsitered by the PO. The Dept has some levers of influence. It set targets for the PO. With some regret, PO will not meet them.
But it is making good progress. Once a formal proposal re late applications was made by the PO, the Dept worked diligently to confirm the substantial public funding required.
Dept is pleased to note cap on legal expenses has been removed. Dept welcomes provision for interim payments, irrespective of personal circumstances.
On overturned convictions scheme. Dept is conscious of hurdles faced by SPMs on making pecuniary damages claims.
On overturned convictions scheme. Dept is conscious of hurdles faced by SPMs on making pecuniary damages claims.
We are working with HMRC to get easier access to historic tax return data.
Re the GLO scheme. We are running this and we think reasonably good progress is being made. The scheme will follow an ADR model and will be administered by BEIS not PO. It will be seen by an advisory...
Re the GLO scheme. We are running this and we think reasonably good progress is being made. The scheme will follow an ADR model and will be administered by BEIS not PO. It will be seen by an advisory...
board including Lord Arbuthnot and Kevan Jones MP both of whom have a long and distringuished records as campaigners for the PO. Dept has now invited claimants and their legal represenatives to begin preparation of claims. We will support initial legal costs.
WW not...
WW not...
... met with universal approval that, has it?
BEIS - the Depts position is that SPMs will be able to recover all reasonable legal expenses. We have made £16m interim payments so far, covering over 85% of claims.
BEIS - the Depts position is that SPMs will be able to recover all reasonable legal expenses. We have made £16m interim payments so far, covering over 85% of claims.
... we know how important this is. Of the 16 bankrupt GLO claimants - you've heard about problems with one insolvency practitioner in particular (Moores?) which the Dept is seeking to resolve asap.
We would encourage you sir to follow up on your suggestion to seek your own...
We would encourage you sir to follow up on your suggestion to seek your own...
... legal advice.
It may be possible to resolve that issue shortly. I f not we will make partial interim payments within the next week.
Finally most GLO members who were acquitted have already received more in compensation than the £100k interim payments.
It may be possible to resolve that issue shortly. I f not we will make partial interim payments within the next week.
Finally most GLO members who were acquitted have already received more in compensation than the £100k interim payments.
BEIS is v pleased PO has set up a compensation scheme to cover lost remuneration caused by suspension and any consequential losses. The govt has committed to providing funding for the PO for this.
The govt will legislate at the earliest oppo to exclude all PO and H related...
The govt will legislate at the earliest oppo to exclude all PO and H related...
... compensation from the calculation of capital limits for means tested benefits and pension credits.
That is in additions to the announcement made in September that no tax will be payable on compensation payments made under the OHC scheme.
That is in additions to the announcement made in September that no tax will be payable on compensation payments made under the OHC scheme.
We are now on a ten minute break.
Apparently the live feed went off again. We're back in the room. Tim Moloney for 72 claimants via Hudgells in the HSS 71 people whose convictions have been overturned and 6 in the GLO scheme.
TM 1st: HSS
TM 1st: HSS
... we raised a concern that heads of damage were being missed by the HSS and we know the inquiry wants to review the HSS in Stage of the Inquiry, but to keep you abreast...
Only three HSS Hudgells applications have reached a good faith meeting stage. In each case an improved offer has been made and there is evidence that the amount paid to claimants can be significantly affected by the failure to identify heads of claim.
Initial net offer of...
Initial net offer of...
... of £46799 - upped to £140,126 after a good faith meeting and that was accounted for by loss of earnings and that should have been identified before the offer.
Case 2 an offer of £3752 - a shortfall of £2K plus interest. After a meeting that was upped to £63,331 which...
Case 2 an offer of £3752 - a shortfall of £2K plus interest. After a meeting that was upped to £63,331 which...
... now include losses arising from resignation and distress and inconvenience which was not previously considered.
Case 3: an offer of £21691 upped to £34,862.
These are our ONLY decisions on offers. And all are upward.
Case 3: an offer of £21691 upped to £34,862.
These are our ONLY decisions on offers. And all are upward.
Second aspect of the HSS is delays.
Late applications have even now only been provisionally accepted. Reasons for lateness have been requested, but no confirmation any applications have been accepted and no offers have been made.
Late applications have even now only been provisionally accepted. Reasons for lateness have been requested, but no confirmation any applications have been accepted and no offers have been made.
Makes point the PO's 95% stat re offers made excludes the late applicants as they have not been formally accepted onto the scheme.
Delays in getting good faith meetings are inexplicable.
Delays in getting good faith meetings are inexplicable.
And then revised offers after a good faith meeting take between 4 and 7 months to come through.
We've conducted 11 GFMs - 16 are due in Jan onwards and only one case where there has been a mediation. That has taken more than four months.
We've conducted 11 GFMs - 16 are due in Jan onwards and only one case where there has been a mediation. That has taken more than four months.
We don't know the reasons for these delays.
One major concern for HSS is with bankrupt claimaints. Offers are being made, but, as predicted, most of the damages under the terms of the settlements are being paid for the benefit of the official receiver.
One major concern for HSS is with bankrupt claimaints. Offers are being made, but, as predicted, most of the damages under the terms of the settlements are being paid for the benefit of the official receiver.
For example Case 4: HSS offered him £259,000 - he got £8000 and the £251,000 went to the official receiver.
His business was ruined. He suffered from poor mental health and this is what he's left with.
His business was ruined. He suffered from poor mental health and this is what he's left with.
Case 5: Offered £24,999 and offered £4,500 whilst the official receiver got £20,432. The official receiver has no say in this - it must settle the bankruptcy in full.
As curerntly appears to us - the HSS takes no account of whether the bankruptcy was due to Horizon.
As curerntly appears to us - the HSS takes no account of whether the bankruptcy was due to Horizon.
[this is a chuffing disaster - room full of people unable to give people redress quickly and efficiently despite everyone agreeing it should happen]
TM the burden of proof has been difficult for many claimants leading to deductions for no apparent basis - one of the reasons for the frustrations is the absence of documentation is due to what the PO encouraged them to do at the time shortfalls were occurring...
TM gives an example of PO procedures which does not allow for an audit trail to make a claim. Also PO is taking into account its ability to terminate a contract with 3 months notice. That is an arbitrary consideration and not right to be part of an HSS assessment.
TM moves on to Overturned Historical Convictions. Early Neutral Evaluation carried out by Lord Dyson was effective. Happy to say that dialogue between Hudgells and PO has led to an extra £63k interims. For pecuniary losses its less happy but not disastrous.
We are making progress but only 2 claims have been paid in full. 4 other cases have been waiting for final settlement proposals for months. PO has made significant delays and still no substantive response. The reason for delay is not known to us.
TM raising bankrupt cases. Official receiver has indicated no further interest. Noel Thomas and David Blakey and one other are with a different insolvency practitioner. They initially relinquished an interest, but on advice have decided to maintain their interest.
This compensation is designed to put people where they should be had they not suffered or been convicted and if a large part of their damages are being swallowed up by insolvency practitioners, especially if their bankruptcy was due to their problems with the PO and Horizon.
TM proposes that actual level of compensation paid is increased so that the debtors can be paid and the SPM is put in the position they should be. It's the most straightforward way. More expensive. But the way through.
TM turns to GLO compensation scheme. We don't represent many SPMs here, but we've engaged with this process. The biggest threat to the scheme is the size of the panel and resources available to progress this scheme.
We break for lunch.
@jennylinford Ed Henry on his feet for a group of SPMs
Two issues - first - delay in delivering compensation to the wronged and innocent and whether those awards approach acceptability.
Second is whether PO will delay appellate rights in needlessly prolonging route to appeal.
Two issues - first - delay in delivering compensation to the wronged and innocent and whether those awards approach acceptability.
Second is whether PO will delay appellate rights in needlessly prolonging route to appeal.
As Prof Moorhead expressed in Feb - this tragedy has been facilitated and perpetrated by legal services and to deny people their article 6 rights - both as contesting their charges, but then to suppress and bury the exculpatory material that would allow them to appeal...
... BEIS is also responsible.
Full and fair compensation. No amount of money can right the wrong, undo the harm...
A deliberate malignant desire or policy to suppress the truth so that even the senior courts were deceived. These appellate rights were destroyed for years.
Full and fair compensation. No amount of money can right the wrong, undo the harm...
A deliberate malignant desire or policy to suppress the truth so that even the senior courts were deceived. These appellate rights were destroyed for years.
Now an integrity test can be applied and I ask the PO to resolve them now - not in phase 5. I will sit down with your permission and ask the PO to answer the two questions which arise from the argument that they should be resolved as soon as possible. It goes to the actual...
... gravamen of the matter.... this happened before 37 crown courts around the country, 700 people over a 20 year period.
[Ed Henry asks WW to make a direction. He refuses. Asks KG for the PO if she wants to make a submission. She doesn't.]
[Ed Henry asks WW to make a direction. He refuses. Asks KG for the PO if she wants to make a submission. She doesn't.]
Ed Henry raises case of Janet Skinner who was 'respected admired and liked' by all her colleagues. Had it all taken away. Prosecuted and advised to plead guilty to avoid prison. Went to prison anyway. Has an autoimmune disease which struck her just after release from prison...
... she was told she was never going to walk again. Her house was repossessed she had to live in condemned housing with her 14yo son (now 31) and her 17yo daughter Toni (now 35), traumatised by what happened to their mum. She couldn't get anywhere to rent, and hasn't worked since
2008. Will her children be compensated for their trauma. They composed statements about the effect of this on them, and as they did so - they wept. The trauma attenuates across time and space.
As JS herself said "No amount of money will make this better"
As JS herself said "No amount of money will make this better"
These people have been changed. Trauma of this nature affects people at a cellular level.
It is not a coincidence that in the history of this saga, people have died, committed suicide and have an unusual incidence of psychiatric and health issues due to the suffering to which
It is not a coincidence that in the history of this saga, people have died, committed suicide and have an unusual incidence of psychiatric and health issues due to the suffering to which
... they were subjected. and it was prolonged. You don't have the power to right that wrong. Your duty is to the truth, but these profound wrongs have affected these people in ways we may never understand.
Full and fair compensation should not be a box-ticking exercise...
Full and fair compensation should not be a box-ticking exercise...
... but should reflect on where would these people be now if they hadn't suffered this appalling wrong.
[This is strong stuff from Ed Henry and is in complete contrast to the businesslike atmosphere pre-lunch. It feels very courtroom-y. Not sure how WW is going to react.]
[This is strong stuff from Ed Henry and is in complete contrast to the businesslike atmosphere pre-lunch. It feels very courtroom-y. Not sure how WW is going to react.]
We're here to deal with rederessing the reputational damage, the mental and physical health, the future earnings that would have been missed, the oppos that could have been grasped, but never where, all because of a decision at the highest level that they would rather...
... preserve commercial and reputational matters as opposed to doing justice to victims.
Why did it take 7 or 8 years past the Clarke Advice - why in the interim before that was there that tooth and claw last-ditch stand before Mr Justice Fraser in those two trials [in 2018/9]
Why did it take 7 or 8 years past the Clarke Advice - why in the interim before that was there that tooth and claw last-ditch stand before Mr Justice Fraser in those two trials [in 2018/9]
We come back to the two questions which have not been answered and they wil be the test of whether this is more words.
What parallel universe does PO inhabit when stating that the lack of a formal scheme has been no settlement of pecuniary losses? How so? Particularly when...
What parallel universe does PO inhabit when stating that the lack of a formal scheme has been no settlement of pecuniary losses? How so? Particularly when...
... Ms Felstead waited half her life to be cleared and had to wait until 19 Oc 2022 to have the unjust confiscation order made against her back in 2002 repaid with interest.
So from the 23 April 2021 to the 19 Oct 2022, that was not settled.
So from the 23 April 2021 to the 19 Oct 2022, that was not settled.
And it is interesting to note that she had been convicted on 26 April 2002 and had to wait until 23 April 2001 to be vindicated.
[Starts talking about Seema Misra]
She was sent to prison pregnant in 2010 to 2021 she head to wait like Ms Felstead and Ms Skinner. She has not...
[Starts talking about Seema Misra]
She was sent to prison pregnant in 2010 to 2021 she head to wait like Ms Felstead and Ms Skinner. She has not...
... made a claim but it is that long delay before her name was cleared that is a matter we respectfully submit that ought to be taken into account - the impact on her children, on her husband who descended into alcoholism.
We come back to those two questions that have not been
We come back to those two questions that have not been
... answered - Tracy, Janet, Seema against all the odds with considerable opposition from all quarters they pursued the ground 2 abuse claim.
[EH also thinks the HSS settlements need to be reopened given the Hudgells examples given earlier.]
Why does it take so long to act with
[EH also thinks the HSS settlements need to be reopened given the Hudgells examples given earlier.]
Why does it take so long to act with
... intergity. Why does it take so long to do the right thing?
You can't jsut give them a mechanical or merely functional sum based on a box ticking exercise - there has to be a qualititative exercise.
WW can i just be clear about the people you represent. Skinner, Felstead, Parekh, Misra are overturned convictions scheme. Caslteton and...
WW can i just be clear about the people you represent. Skinner, Felstead, Parekh, Misra are overturned convictions scheme. Caslteton and...
... Arch are in the GLO scheme. And Shiju is in the HSS?
EH - correct sir.
WW - thank you
We have a short break.
EH - correct sir.
WW - thank you
We have a short break.
Sam Stein now talking - represents more than 150 SPMs
One of the advantages of going last it's given us an oppo to read our correspondence from our clients watching the submissions. In summary they want to know why the delay...
One of the advantages of going last it's given us an oppo to read our correspondence from our clients watching the submissions. In summary they want to know why the delay...
... Sinead Reilly - who was mentioned today - will hear finally that her position will be addressed in the next few weeks.
This compensation hearing has been useful, but not enough. Yesterday we had served upon us, in the afternoon a proposed scheme for GLO members...
This compensation hearing has been useful, but not enough. Yesterday we had served upon us, in the afternoon a proposed scheme for GLO members...
... there is a lack of controlling mind, a lack of cohesion, being placed into these schemes across the board. We shouldn't be in a situation where people are thinking about a Christmas break and how they might be able to finance it and manage that period. The PO has...
... fought and fought to stop the truth coming out. The standout issue is the provision for timely compensation for those that have suffered. We're not just talking about a couple of people. THese are hundreds of SPMs with complex claims.
The Horizon system was defective. We suggest, as we're learning that the true extent of losses to Subpostmasters may not be known. We're only just seeing the tip of the iceberg.
BEIS and the PO have NO experience of engaging with and compensating victims.
BEIS and the PO have NO experience of engaging with and compensating victims.
There may have been very few if any compensation schemes where the perpetrators call the shots and control the process. BEIS does not understand that traumatised people appreciate prototype schemes being placed on a website with no warning.
[Stein asks that all compensation schemes are placed under an independent authority]
There needs to be a recognition of the ongoing harm caused by the Post Office so I will summarise. I told you about Peter Worsfold in July who still could not pay back his 94 yo mother. This...
There needs to be a recognition of the ongoing harm caused by the Post Office so I will summarise. I told you about Peter Worsfold in July who still could not pay back his 94 yo mother. This...
... month he got interim compensation which helped pay off some debts. He has lost 20 years of income. He tells us that the compensation he has got in dribs and drabs does not touch the sides of what I lost.
Joanne Fulger: Christmas is going to be a struggle...
Joanne Fulger: Christmas is going to be a struggle...
.... Christmas dinner will be microwaved. I am not the person I was.
James Withers: there appears to be no thought or compassion for the victims - they seem to make it their mission to delay the outcome as long as they possibly can.
James Withers: there appears to be no thought or compassion for the victims - they seem to make it their mission to delay the outcome as long as they possibly can.
[Sam stein is going through a litany of cases. They are tragic]
https://twitter.com/RichardMoorhead/status/1600860096338460672
SS - those are some of the indivduals. Others are in our schedule. We need to mention these because this is ongoing suffering happening right now and we're talking about the need to deal with people right now.
SPMs need and deserve the support of competent solicitors such as Howe and Co and where required advice from counsel - they should not be doing it on the cheap or forced to go cap in hand to the perpetrator.
On 17 Nov this year BEIS announced it had spend £53.4m on legal and administrative costs for the HSS to date!
The minister says £900 should be made available in legal fees to prepare a claim. That's around 2.5 hours work. This will not cover investigating and supporting the claims, client conferences, preparing and instructing experts, schedule of loss and instruction...
... of counsel as to quantam.
How much have the Post Office spent on Herbert Smith Freehills?
How much have the Post Office spent on Herbert Smith Freehills?
Asks for an interim report from Sir Wyn. Says the BEIS GLO prototype scheme has various issues in the short time they've had to look at it.
SS concludes. Sir Wyn says that concludes the oral submissions to accompany the written submissions and now he'll "go away and think about them. So there we are."
And he's out of here. That's it.
Rebecca and I will get some reaction and then post up a podcast and secret email
And he's out of here. That's it.
Rebecca and I will get some reaction and then post up a podcast and secret email
... tomorrow morning.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for reading.
@threadreaderapp unroll pls
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