Thread by @strangerous10

#RobodebtRC Former DHS Secretary Renee Leon who was sacked under sweeping departmental changes by former PM Morrison while keeping Kathryn Campbell onboard, says she was sacked because she believed in
“Frank and Fearless Advice”

She’s thrown Campbell under the bus, but now is on the defensive.

Greggery asks about what she knew about legal issues with Robodebt in her time as DHS Secretary.
She says it never crossed her mind that the scheme could be illegal.🤨

Now thrown Musolino under the bus, saying once she finally became aware of legal complaints, she referred this to her.

They didn’t go any further for now, but if she’s leading to eventually say she was assured its legal & accepted it, without checking, & as Secretary…right.

Leon is at least answering most questions pretty directly & spilling beans along the way in her evidence

They are talking now about the culture in DHS which Leon says she felt there was a lot of “aggression” in,
“yelling at people” “publicly shaming”
Says she tried to fix it

They are now going onto the legal question.

But I have an errand

I get the feeling it will get more and more interesting, so please watch on if you can or keep up to date with other tweeters.

Im on the road but still listening.

Leon starting to come undone now, grilled by Commissioner who suggests as a lawyer, and Secretary, she should have known.

Not my job
Didn’t turn my mind

The usual defensive drill

Renee Leon says as a lawyer, she never thought there was any legal issue with requiring welfare recipients to disprove Debts by having onus of proof put onto them

But if she failed to pick up the legal issue (even after the media circus), did she not pick up it might be unfair?

Now she’s defending her decision to do nothing after Professor Terry Carey’s damning AAT decision on the scheme.

Says she assumed he was just wrong, & was reassured by others that is the case. Didn’t look further.

Holmes grilling her now, Leon trying to minimise her knowledge, saying she didn’t understand how the scheme ever worked.
“Not because i was negligent in my duties”

I think the commissioner will make that decision.

Leon says she “fell” into the assumption that it was “legal”

And repeatedly says she didn’t turn her mind to anything being illegal at all.

Remember the media being hysterical about it being illegal? #IRemember

She’s a lawyer, Professor, she was Secretary at the time, but seems to think she could just take everyone’s word and check nothing for herself.

She says there’s 2 options:

1) everyone (in DHS) was just innocently mistaking
Or
2) people knew about legal issues, and hid it.

As long as she agrees she also falls into one of those 2 options.

She often refers to that “the department” wanted this or that

The department she was Secretary for. Meaning she had a relatively high enough position to be able to make key decisions. She was higher than Golightly who we heard them all blame. What does that say?

She’s now hanging it on Campbell again, saying she was more compliant towards government’s agenda so they wanted to “reward” her, (and not Leon), which led to her sacking.
I’m not doubting that.

Shes now been hit with some pretty damning evidence that she requested the Ombudsman remove concerns they had about the legality of the scheme.

Ouch.

She tries to pin it on the Legal Services Division/Dept
But her name is on the document. She agrees she read & cleared it.

Renee Leon made this request to the Ombudsman:
“I ask that the commentary on the legality of the EIC system be removed from the Implementation Report”

More dragging of Campbell under the bus, well done over this time.

Says when she had advice the scheme has to finally be stopped, she didn’t want Campbell to present it to the Minister in case she finds a way to keep the scheme running.

Drags Stuart Robert under the bus big time,.

Says that in response to her showing of legal advice, showing it being illegal,

he said “Legal advice is just advice”

And that he said it in certain tone,
“Well… ! Legal advice is just advice!”

Renee asked about a meeting she had in November 2019 with Stuart Robert.

Greggery asks if she kept notes
RL: “I didn’t”

Says she relied on fact others in the room might do it.

She says she asked Minister Stuart Robert that they apologise for the failures of the scheme.

And his response was
“We will absolutely not be doing that, we will double down”

Yikes!!! Can’t wait till they ask Stuey about this one.

Days after her meeting with Stuart Robert

She says she recalls Christian Porter coming into a meeting, where Robert was present, and that he confirmed the Solicitor General’s advice was correct (and scheme should be stopped)

And that Robert said “Oh yes that’s right” (finally)

Leon says then PM Turnbull “delayed” the process by which Robodebt was to be expanded into vulnerable cohorts.

There’s been a lot of discussion about Leon’s evidence, how honest she might have been.
In the end there were some concerning parts, should be scrutinised heavily.
But also… 1/

Wasn’t a big waffler, recalled relatively OK & spilled the beans on others

But then she also wrote to the Ombudsman asking them to remove wording about legal concerns

And didn’t keep notes of her alleged meeting with Robert where she asked him to apologise
So, it is what it is

I lean towards a more critical view, but appreciate some of her evidence where I appreciated nothing from most.
She could still be in some trouble.

But I also acknowledge (if it’s correct) that she ended the scheme earlier than Stuart Robert/govt wanted.

As they are about to resume I’m out doing the usual school pickups and will have the kids so mark me down as mostly unavailable till later tonight