Very interesting idea here. That each sura has its own unique "personality/features". The example presented here is Q4 is the only sure that uses the form
سندخلهم
of the verb "دخل" in the whole Qur'an
Would love to know more or see some more examples of this idea ...
@chonkshonk1 @IanCook321 Np about harsh language. I've never minded strong words in such discussions
@chonkshonk1 @IanCook321 The verse I quoted is reliable. And no, it isn't unreliable that ddifferent tribes lived in different areas of Arabia, including different tribes in the same cities, and even different clans of the same tribe within the same city
You might as well just deny Arabs were tribal...
@chonkshonk1 @IanCook321 & say that is based on "unreliable sources"
It is 100% reliable. It is seen everywhere. Including surviving Arabic poetry & epics. Like those where a lover laments dwellings of the tribe of his beloved
Denying that basic fact of Arabian life can only cripple ur understanding...
@Archetypical20 Well, I wasn't think in terms of that level of skepticism. To deny the existence of a famous historical figure like Ali you have to reject far more than just hadiths. You have to reject poetry, genealogies, geography, burial sites, existence of a caliphites, battles, etc etc
@Archetypical20 and yes even external sources ... there are some which mention the dispute conflict with Mu'awiya's rebellion ... there is even an external source which describes the caliphate of Abu Bakr as a coup against Ali
@Archetypical20 Going back to the other point, yes of c the Sufis accept hadiths. And traditional scholary Sufism considers itself part of the Sunnism with roots in Ahlul Hadith and reverence for the same figures and same books ... but what I am saying is that real "personal" type reverence ...
@Archetypical20 So let me just briefly give a preamble and then outline what i would say
Preamble; it is in fact such such a tragedy for anyone who has grown up will love and "Sufi 'ishq" for the Prophet to come to the realization that the hadith corpus around him is severely tainted, and ...
@Archetypical20 that when you actually look at what is considered "sahih" the image of the Prophet that emerges isn't one that is a "love-able" as the more "innocent" image that you have of him that, it seems to me, is absorbed and established from the simple obvious things ... that he was ...
@Archetypical20 what you would expect from a Messenger of God; merciful, kind, not harsh, understanding, etc ... and also from some cardinal stories that have impacted psychologically at key moments or were repeated ... like his forgiveness at Mecca/Taif, the story with the neighbor woman ...
Ask these people to first publish books of the Hadiths, ALL Hadiths, narrated through the 10 canonical qira'at
Make sure to include the narrations of Hafs, whom you deem to be rejected as a Hadith transmitter!
You first accept ALL those Hadiths, then we talk!
As for Qur'an-Only philosophy, it is a simple question; do you believe the Qur'an, God's words and Book that you constantly call a miracle, is miraculous "enough" and great enough to guide a human being to God's love and the highest level of Paradise, all on its own?
Trinity vs Tritheism in the Qur'an. A case for a higher level understanding of Christian theology and heresy in the Qur'an
There is a very nice short presentation by Nicolai Sinai that I saw around a month or so ago. It bears the piffy title "The Christian elephant in the Meccan room" and can be viewed here;
In this presentation he says, and I would generally agree, that the "Qur'anic acquaintance with Christianity is extensive rather than intensive", something which "fits the scenario of missionary exposure quite well". The reverse, I would note, is also true however.
I hope those interested have had a chance to read it.
In this thread I would like to add some metacommentary.
The secular field of Hadith studies is developing at a rapid pace. The recourse to digital tools is particularly promising
I was able to see that first hand at the IDHN Digital Hadith Studies conference around a year ago;
Such rigor and tools should help us Muslims, who are the ones most impacted by the Hadith corpus, to be better abled at navigating it and its relevance