@chonkshonk1 @IanCook321 Np about harsh language. I've never minded strong words in such discussions @chonkshonk1 @IanCook321 The verse I quoted is reliable. And no, it isn't unreliable that ddifferent tribes lived in different areas of Arabia, including different tribes in the same cities, and even different clans of the same tribe within the same city

You might as well just deny Arabs were tribal...

@Archetypical20 Well, I wasn't think in terms of that level of skepticism. To deny the existence of a famous historical figure like Ali you have to reject far more than just hadiths. You have to reject poetry, genealogies, geography, burial sites, existence of a caliphites, battles, etc etc @Archetypical20 and yes even external sources ... there are some which mention the dispute conflict with Mu'awiya's rebellion ... there is even an external source which describes the caliphate of Abu Bakr as a coup against Ali

@Archetypical20 So let me just briefly give a preamble and then outline what i would say

Preamble; it is in fact such such a tragedy for anyone who has grown up will love and "Sufi 'ishq" for the Prophet to come to the realization that the hadith corpus around him is severely tainted, and ... @Archetypical20 that when you actually look at what is considered "sahih" the image of the Prophet that emerges isn't one that is a "love-able" as the more "innocent" image that you have of him that, it seems to me, is absorbed and established from the simple obvious things ... that he was ...

Very interesting idea here. That each sura has its own unique "personality/features". The example presented here is Q4 is the only sure that uses the form
سندخلهم
of the verb "دخل" in the whole Qur'an

Would love to know more or see some more examples of this idea ...

https://twitter.com/JawharDawood/status/1639605948124655618

Watch this space ...

https://twitter.com/JawharDawood/status/1640329114526572546?t=bFx6wQbpZJq9XAyQj-bh6w&s=19

I'm not "Qur'an only" but I do defend it, & of course I have heard this absurd hot air numerous times

Mantras repeated without any critical thought

That those who preserved the Qur'an are the same ones who preserved the Hadiths! Really? Bukhari and Muslim preserved the Qur'an?

https://twitter.com/MuslimScholars_/status/1628410575779778562

It is nonsense!

Ask these people to first publish books of the Hadiths, ALL Hadiths, narrated through the 10 canonical qira'at

Make sure to include the narrations of Hafs, whom you deem to be rejected as a Hadith transmitter!

You first accept ALL those Hadiths, then we talk!

Trinity vs Tritheism in the Qur'an. A case for a higher level understanding of Christian theology and heresy in the Qur'an There is a very nice short presentation by Nicolai Sinai that I saw around a month or so ago. It bears the piffy title "The Christian elephant in the Meccan room" and can be viewed here;

Ahadith on the intellect ('aql) and the Twin Tensions of Raf' and Ra'y

Yesterday I shared this excellent thread by @IslamicOrigins analyzing the Hadith of "When God created the Intellect" primarily focusing on an ICMA;

https://twitter.com/IslamicOrigins/status/1479054818173931520

I hope those interested have had a chance to read it.

In this thread I would like to add some metacommentary.

The secular field of Hadith studies is developing at a rapid pace. The recourse to digital tools is particularly promising

One thing rarely discussed here is "when" was this call made? And what is meant by تحتها? If it was the angel, why would he be beneath her? & if 'Isa, then did he say this after he was out of the womb? Or during the مخاض? In which case it would be a kind of telepathy speech

https://twitter.com/tafsirdoctor/status/1462793625188941828

That would take us to his speech to her people perhaps being "telepathic" too? We are talking about a sign here true, but if it was functionally carried out by baby 'Isa, then we must ask; are newborns even physically/structurally developed enough for clear speech? I've read not

An echo of a Qur'anic verse from @jordanbpeterson and missed point regarding Christ's position of Beauty and Chaos in the historically traditional Sufi-oriented Islam.

A thread. 1/19

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1457844624966492166?s=20

During this wonderful conversation between @jordanbpeterson & Mustafa @AkyolinEnglish there was an echoing by Dr. Peterson of a Qur'anic verses, which he should pursue in future dialogues, & something of a missed point of opportunity from Mustafa regarding Christ in Islam
/2

@ShAmmarKhatib1 @AlFiras27 The issue with autointerpolation by the Prophet, which I don't find objectionable, is the scale. But I'll get back to that. Regarding that verse it doesn't help with accepting autointerpolation, only that it was revealed pieces by piece, but they could be continuous @ShAmmarKhatib1 @AlFiras27 Another verse is of course;
وَقَالَ ٱلَّذِینَ كَفَرُوا۟ لَوۡلَا نُزِّلَ عَلَیۡهِ ٱلۡقُرۡءَانُ جُمۡلَةࣰ وَ ٰ⁠حِدَةࣰۚ كَذَ ٰ⁠لِكَ لِنُثَبِّتَ بِهِۦ فُؤَادَكَۖ وَرَتَّلۡنَـٰهُ تَرۡتِیلࣰا

It neither denies nor really supports interpolations within suras

So how normal was that?

Shirk and Mushrikun; notes on a thread

Spring-boarding from this wonderful blogpost by Dr. Ahab @abhistoria which I finally got round to reading today

https://twitter.com/abhistoria/status/1452967148989657088

Though he has left us in suspense as to how he divides them into 4 currents ... teasing us no doubt 😏/1 I've also presented a fourfold division of what the Islamic tradition would lump together as mushrikun - I'll list them later - but first a word of appreciation for all the academics working in Qur'anic studies and amazing work they put out but I don't have time to study deeply/2

1- Regarding the "Satanic Verses" story, and removing its association with the Qur'an and verse 22:52

Seeing a recent comment led me to reply regarding how this obvious lie is still being pinned onto the Qur'an without criticism and thus the wisdom of these verses is being lost

https://twitter.com/Quranic_Islam/status/1375034624389308422

2- The Satanic Verses story is one which was crafted later in order to fit this verse by those who themselves did not understand the message of this passage of the Qur'an. Which is why a slow deliberate reading shows that this story can in no way be attached to these verses