Thread by @eigenrobot

yuds argument is curious to me because it seems to adopt the view that gender identity is fixed but *unknown.* that people are "actually" men or women in some sense even if they dont necessarily realize it

so i think you could actually identify a richer set of positions:

https://twitter.com/tracewoodgrains/status/1651021891874725889

two specific matters seem to involve

1. whether some "objective" gender exists; or whether gender is intersubjective; or if it is purely subjective

2. regardless of genders degree of objectivity, the extent to which one may be aware of their own gender

within the "objective" camp, we can identify two further prominant subgroups that we might call

- chromosomists, who identify chromosomal sex as the objective determinant

- euphorists, who identify "objective" gender as that which produces a sense of internal alignment

the subjectivists and intersubjectivists will be ignored for the remainder of the discussion because my hunch is that there are not many of them and because i rather doubt they yell at other people much

well. actually that may not be true on reflection because many people are intersubjectivists without self-knowlege of THAT. but it nevertheless remains outside the scope of this thread

anyway

a common mode of conflict for gender objectivists is the following

person: my gender is such and such

objectist: actually its !such and such

and of course this usually boils down to tiresome euphorist vs chromosomist conflict

in such exchanges one generally expects the objectivist to be a chromosomist speaking to an euphorist

but hark! in yuds post he is implicitly adopting a shade of euphorism, but nevertheless denies the gender self-knowledge of others!

it occurs to me on reflection that this is not a wholly uncommon occurrence

the exchange quoted below has some of it

and i am vaguely aware of some kind of discourse about trans "eggs"

https://twitter.com/joeviewtiful22/status/1650190320439820289?t=uHi42y0TLWWcGYNmkbNy6A&s=19

while yud in particular does not strike me as someone who ought to be making public inferences about other ppls genders i am thinking that the solution to the trans wars has been in front of us this whole time

all parties will be satisfied by my proposal

the reason euphorists and chromosomists are mad at each other is not that they disagree and its unrelated to the fact that both are completely wrong

the issue is an imbalance of social latitude afforded to--or rather, taken at the point of the sword--by euphorists

"everyone just gets to choose their own gender" no. people want to scream

the world in which we can finally know peace is the world in where everyone argues about everyone elses gender constantly, euphorists and chromosomists alike, each from their own unreconcilable positions

all we have to do is allow that *no one* is aware of their own gender at any point in time

and frankly well

thats getting close to the ground truth

https://twitter.com/eigenrobot/status/1552493188375519232?t=uHi42y0TLWWcGYNmkbNy6A&s=19

everyone reading this is a girl btw