Thread by @defund604

Livetweeting the Inquest into the #VPD murder of Myles Gray. #JusticeForMylesGray

Follow here: www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/li…

First Witness: Dr. Matthew Orde, a forensic pathologist. He will likely be testifying as an expert and with regards to the extensive injuries Myles Gray suffered.

Dr. Orde is qualified as an expert witness.

Dr. Orde details how a forensic pathologist comes to provide their opinion on what causes an individual's death. He also explains some limits. "The autopsy is a blunt tool." More often than not we identify a condition, or conditions, that exist at a time of death.

The autopsy is a subjective opinion-based science.

On August 18, 2015 Dr. Orde conducted an autopsy of Myles Gray. He also prepared a post-mortem examination report.

Inquest counsel asks Dr. Orde to walk the jury through the autopsy. He explains "The autopsy just enables us to assess structural disease and damage."
He reminds us we cannot see the function (i.e. electrical flow, neuro-responses, overall the physiology of how the body works).

Findings of the autopsy report:
- Myles Gray was a muscular adult male, 173 cm (5'9), 84 kg (185 lbs)
- Muscular & Stocky; muscular in shoulders, arms & thighs
- Features of attempted resuc
- Signs of multiple injuries, caused by application of blunt force

- Tram-line bruises. Indicated Myles was struck by a rigid object (i.e. police baton). Notable on L thigh and R arm
- Several bruises on his face
- Black eyes on L & R eye
- Skin was torn

- Fracture (blow-out fracture) to the R eye. Typically results from forceful blow the eye.
- Nasal bone fractured
- Jaw seemed rather lose (suggests partial dislocation)
- Localized, "minor" bleeding around the brain

- Upper R part of the voicebox was fractured, just in front of his spine
- Fracture to inner rear part of his rib
- Fracture to upper part of breastbone - no associated bleeding - likely sustained durin attempted resucitation
- Testicles were hemorrhagic (bruised)

- Dr. Orde notes none of those injuries provide a good explanation to why Myles died when he died.
- Notes that pressure applied to the neck can cause death (neck compression can kill)
- Possible that the injury to the larynx & localized bruising in neck tissues reflects that

- Steps in various attempts to resuscitation can lead to injury (which could explain the injury to Myles Gray's breastbone)

- Notes that L ventricle was enlarged. Reflects Myles Gray's muscular build.
- Excess of blood & fluid in Myles' lungs. Very common finding in autopsy
- We know Myles underwent prolonged resuscitation

- Myles' brain was examined by a neuropathologist - a few assorted minor conditions/disease processes that would not lead to death
- Dr. Orde references the tox report that followed. This report was notably updated yesterday

No definitive cause of death identified. Dr Orde: "This is likely explained because Mr Gray's death was brought about by an insult to his physiology that doesn't lead to any markers..."

Limitations of the autopsy: autopsy does not pinpoint a specific cause or causes of death. The circumstances leading to Myles' death are required to lead to an explanation.

Injuries are explained individually in Dr. Orde's report. He again notes widespread bruises to Myles Gray's skin, with bleeding under his skin. Multifocal bruising and bleeding elsewhere.

Evidence prev heard:
- Myles Gray was acting erratically. "He was involved in a struggle with the police."
- He was sprayed with OC spray
- Lateral neck restraint (chokehold) applied 2x
- Arm also went around his neck
- Blunt force (including baton & hand strikes)

- Double-cuffed behind his back
- Hobbled with a restraint around his legs
- He was in a prone position
- Varying descriptions of the level of struggle (the copaganda-narrative)

- Various versions of what happened to Myles Gray, specifically relating to his loss of consciousness
- Cops claim he was briefly revived, spoke in a panicked manner briefly
- No one who was not a cop saw Myles revived by #VPD

- Dr. Orde says there is not a clearcut, definitive, isolated cause of death.
- Dr. Orde references how people in a "law enforcement restraint situation do occasionally die...Likely explained by multiple factors coalescing in a 'perfect storm to bring about death.'"

HOW IS THERE A CAUSE OF DEATH THAT ONLY OCCURS IN POLICE CUSTODY?! #ExcitedDelirium is not real. It is a magical terms that police & their collaborators use to explain away deaths in custody. This shit is not real.

Dr. Orde wants to discuss Myles' apparent strange behaviour on the morning he died. These behavioural features constitute "an acute behavioural disturbance." These changes had only come on in the recent past.

Orde references the so-called excited delirium, "excited delirium" syndrome. On occasion it was thought excited delirium can bring on death independently.
He is not persuaded that excited delirium syndrome can independently bring about death.

We cannot get away from the fact that Myles Gray was suffering from some sort of acute behavioural disturbance (a term Dr. Orde prefers to use). That's a descriptive term, not a diagnosis.

Myles Gray was forcibly restrained. Many studies have looked at the potential effect of forcible restraint, particularly in a prone position. Difficult to replicate the exact conditions that operate when people actually die.

Data shows: people who are restrained forcibly, particularly in the face-down position, have an increased risk of death. #JusticeForMylesGray

Other factors: compression of chest and abdomen. Compression of blood vessels. Compression of the heart (affects cardiac output).
Diminished ventilation & cardiac output - need to look at that evidence.

There was an ongoing forceful restraint applied to Myles Gray.
Orde asks people to imagine exerting yourself to the limit. Body experiences hugely increased demand, body is at the edge of its performance envelope.

Myles would have been breathing heavily, his heart would have been beating rapidly. At this time, he notes People die in a prone position when restrained - Myles was forcibly held in a prone position. #JusticeForMylesGray

Dr. Orde says there is not a clearcut, definitive cause of death.
Myles Gray's death was "multifactoral."

Myles Gray's Cause of Death, proposed by Dr. Orde
- He died as a result of a cardiopulmonary arrest, complicating law enforcement subdural and restraint (involving the application of OC spray, multiple blunt force injuries, neck compression, dorsal handcuffing...

"...and forcible prone positioning; in an individual exhibiting features of acute behvioural disturbance."

He says this is the best we can get on the basis of the evidence before us.

Inquest counsel queries the usefulness of bodycams. Would bodycams assist the forensic pathologist?
He says undoubtedly they would. They rely hugely on circumstantial explanations.
Body-cam footage would assist in elucidating the circumstances leading to death.

Questions from David McKnight, counsel for #VPD Chief Counsel. McKnight asserts that Myles Gray was "a regular user of testosterone."

We actually haven't heard that evidence.

Dr. Orde acknowledges Myles Gray was muscular and notes elevated creatinine level (which the toxicologist said was not necessarily due to testosterone use).

Now Dr. Orde (going outside his area of expertise) references "roid rage." Says it is difficult to identify the impact of anabolic steroids on mental processes.

McKnight talks about the "intense altercation with police" which could have contributed to an acidotic state. The #VPD is really reaching for a metabolic cause of death here.
In reality: his heart & breathing function were compromised.

His chest & abdomen were compressed (by #VPD officers forcibly restraining him). The compression led to reduced cardiac output. Breathing would have been difficult. Compressing abdomen also limited his diaphragm's effectiveness. Other fx: OC spray...

Orde restates that "multifactoral death, listing contributory factors."
McKnight picks up on the acidosis.
Orde restates his limited expertise.
Orde says he reviewed data re: individuals held in a prone position.

In any position, where an individual is forcibly restrained, limits their ability to breath.
Orde's purpose is to best identify the cause of death.

Ian Donaldson, counsel for the family of Myles Gray, asks Dr. Orde about asphyxia. Dr. Orde describes "positional asphyxia." Orde elaborates on Positional Asphyxia + Forcible Restraint. Orde says "forceful restraint" better reflects what happened to Myles Gray.

Myles Gray was still handcuffed (on one hand) at the time of his autopsy. #JusticeForMylesGray

Dr. Orde also examined Myles Gray's ankles and feet. Examination of lower limbs.
IIO photographed Myles Gray extensively during the autopsy.

Orde identified a band of "patchy, pink discoloration, with a triangle of pale skin..." Marks reflect bruising caused by the application of blunt force.

Donaldson describes the hobbling of Myles Gray.
The marking on left lower extremities is consistent with a hobbling device.

Bruising suggests the hobble device was applied fairly tightly and with some degree of force.

Donaldson references images of Myles Gray. These photos will not be displayed on the livestream. He is asking Dr. Orde to refer to specific photographs, without having them present. Donaldson will be referring to 5 images.

Inquest standing down after a brief break, to discuss the photos.

Back @ 10:45

Inquest resumed after 45 minutes.

Donaldson asks Dr. Orde about head & neck injuries.
- Injuries @ autopsy reflect injuries on Myles' face at his time of death
- This includes a laceration on Myles Gray's forehead.
- Swelling & purplish discolouration (i.e. bruising)

- Tram-line bruising on Myles' legs. Consistent with use of force from a baton.
- Dr. Orde was able to compare a police baton to the bruising he identified on Myles' legs.

- 3 areas of tramline bruising. At the upper end of one of the bruises, there was "an ill-defined expansion"
- Baton would have been held at knee, or below knee, hitting with the tip of the baton

Donaldson now queries injured neck muscles. The bleeding besides Myles Gray's voicebox indicates he was injured here while he was alive.

Donaldson asks if bleeding from these injuries could have gone down Myles' throat. Dr. Orde does not think this would have led to blood in his throat/lungs. He does note there were also injuries to the face. Orde states Myles may well have had blood in upper airways.

Dr. Orde: if OC spray comes into contact with lining or airways, it can cause a degree of swelling. He can't speak specifically about the impact of applying OC spray.

Now up Officer Christine Joseph (oops, she's counsel here). She is asking him about Dr. Orde's IIO interview.

Dr. Orde - none of these injuries individually would have been of huge importance, except for potentially lethal neck-compressive procedure. Joseph references "the perfect storm" that could have created this very unfortunate result.

Dr. Orde refers back to the cause of death statement. He again refers to the #VPD use of force - specifically the forcible restraint.

Christine Joseph now asking the pathologist about his take on the role of ALS. Reminder that by the time ALS paramedics arrived on-scene, Myles Gray was dead. He had no pulse. AED never detected electrical activity in his heart.

Christine Joseph is engaging in some very horrific victim-blaming. She has essentially states that if Myles Gray wasn't struggling so much against the forcible restraint, ALS would have been able to sedate him sooner.

Now over to the jurors for questions.

Dr. Orde: What we can say with some degree of certainty, based on circumstances, autopsy finding and lit review. He would not have died when he did, had it not been for the police interaction on that day. Myles Gray's death was due to that subdural & restrained process.

From a medical standpoint, the acute behavioural disturbance would have only contributed to the situation Myles found himself in. It may have increased his physiological demands. But the police interaction is what killed him.

More questions about anabolic steroids & heart enlargement. Orde says the constellation of other events happening at that time (i.e. forcible restraint) are more important. The possible use of anabolic steroids did not play a direct, meaningful part in Myles' death.

Jurors seeming to go down a garden path about testosterone, administering ketamine shots & the general wasting of time. appreciate that they are lay-people who are tasked with a difficult task...

At this point it's been clearly stated (in multiple ways) that Myles Gray's potential use of testosterone was not significant in his death. With regards to sedation - the ALS paramedics who are licensed to do this arrived to a scene where Myles was already dead.

Juror #4 is fixated with the use of testosterone. It's unhelpful and has already been explained - in multiple ways.

J4 is asking questions about inconsistencies with timing. ((((it's because the cops are lying!!!!))))

IIO elaborates on VPD union involvement. They are asked to write detailed notes ASAP. Witness officers are asked to speak with IIO ASAP.
Issues with: locations of interview, officers sought legal advice, 1 lawyer tried to represent 7-8 subject officers and 1 witness officer

IIO says it was resolved but took considerable time.

Initially these #VPD officers were designated as subject officers:
- Folkestad
- Gravengard
- Thompson
- Sahota
- Birzneck
- Cain
- Wong
- Spencer
- Tan

The #VPD identified these officers. The number was reduced because they were not genuine subject officers.

IIO cannot specifically say why these officers were converted to witness officers. Cites the example of Sahota - she used her baton 3x.

It took the IIO almost 5 years. #VPD lack of cooperation. coroner's panel took some time to convene & review autopsy report.
- majority of info at the end of 2018
- then IIO file review process
- file sent to Crown in march 2019

IIO said that statements should be given to them within 1 week. They didn't hear from #VPD until 2016. |
On Day 1 of the investigation someone from the Vancouver Police Union not to take notes.

Even when the IIO was able to have info from subject officers (in 2016), they were not able to complete interviews with witness officers until 2018. Again, that was Hardeep Sahota. IIO cites similar behaviour in the Rintoul case.

IIO did not receive a copy of the registration of death.

Wow are we about to hear the first follow-up question from Inquest Counsel??? Way to represent the public interest @bccoroners counsel Mr. Liu!!

The Presiding Coroner & Inquest Counsel ask Mr. Bradshaw to share the following info: Myles Thomas Gray. DOB: 20-Feb-1982. Died in Burnaby BC on 13-Aug-2015.

Counsel for VPD Union members wants to highlight how Hardeep Sahota gave 1 interview in 2016.

She also highlights the delay in interviewing paramedic Jenette Ziegler.

Christine Joseph wants to point out that interviews with non-police officers were happening late in 2016.

next witness: Ronald MacDonald Chief Civilian Director of the IIO. He decides whether killer cops should face charges following an IIO investigation.

As Chief Civilian Director he acts independently from govt & police agencies. They investigate incidents of serious harm & death involving police.
There are 65 people at the IIO.
He oversees each investigation & decides whether or not the case should be referred to Crown.

Police Act Sec 7.1 led to creation of the IIO. Been in operation for 10.5 years. Ronald MacDonald has been a lawyer since 1985. Prev crim defence & private lawyer, then became Crown in Antigonish. Volunteer w Law Society. Seconded to Nova Scotia DOJ.

Sept 24 2011 became the first director of SIRT in Nova Scotia. SIRT became operational in 2012.
Created around the same time as the IIO.
He was recruited to IIO in 2016.

Ronald MacDonald asked to explain the IIO. Every province now has a team that does this type of work. "There's a public perception issue that police should not be investigating police." Rule of law relies on the public's faith.

The whole point is to help maintain the public's faith in policing. Ew, no.

Technically, IIO is a police agency. Chief Civilian Director can never have worked or been a member of a police force. They have all the powers of any police officer or police agency. Carry out their work, as an investigative body

Ronald MacDonald asked to describe "subject officer" vs "witness officer" designation. This is modelled on what ON did in the 1990s (SIU), and then in AB (ASIRT).

Currently, the Police Act does not distinguish this, police are compelled to comply with the IIO. However, Ronald MacDonald says the Charter overrides everything. He says cops have the right not to be conscripted to give evidence against themselves in criminal investigations.

IIO does not have jurisdiction over matters where there is not serious harm. They only define serious harm as PHYSICAL harm. BC does not include sexual assault, psychological harm, etc.

Director of Policing could order the IIO to do an investigation that does not involve serious harm. MacDonald says this happens about once a year.

Number of IIO investigations have been rising in BC. It has nearly doubled since MacDonald became Chief Civilian Director.
IIO claims police departments proactively contact them (yeah, right).

On average, over 200 IIO investigations for the last 5 years.

Ronald MacDonald believed there were reasonable grounds to believe officers had committed offences in the killing Myles Gray. The Crown chose not pursue charges.

Ronald MacDonald "I spent more time on this file than any file since I started at the IIO."

Donaldson asks MacDonald about pursuing information during this investigation. The critical participants stayed quiet. It was the right of subject officers.

There were also issues with cooperation from Cst Hardeep Sahota. A second interview was appropriate & she set conditions. That's when IIO turned to the courts to ensure cooperation.

Sahota wanted to know when she could have access to a copy of her statement. Concern about providing her with a copy. MacDonald made an arrangement that she would read her statement in Counsel's office.

Under the law, "the duty to cooperate" is determined by the IIO. BCCA has said that duty to cooperate, within reason, is determined by the Chief Civilian Director. The IIO had to get this ruling in another case involving the #VPD (believe it was Rintoul case)

Trial court agreed with IIO. Decision appealed by the Vancouver Police Union. BCCA agreed with IIO. IIO now has guidelines/code of conduct for officers involved in IIO investigation.
Essentially VPD officers want to control the investigation of themselves.

IIO wanted to "pull out all the stops" for this case. Went through the coroner's review panel to get the best possible opinion.

Ronald MacDonald asked about "excited delirium." The panel rejected excited delirium as a factor - Coroner directs jury to reject this question from Ian Donaldson

The concept of excited delirium had arisen. One of the specific reasons that panel was convened was to look at excited delirium.

Counsel for the #VPD members objects to a specific letter being included. Seems to be a letter that MacDonald sent to Crown.

Mr. MacDonald sent an outline of his thoughts to Crown. Cites some post-mortem evidence. MacDonald details credibility issues with #VPD officers. Joseph is vehemently opposed to Ronald MacDonald of the @iiobc sharing his opinion on the credibility of VPD.

Some nice maneuvering by Donaldson here. He wants to surface conflicts between the Crown office and the decision to bring charges against #VPD.

Donaldson says there may be recommendations to #VPD, Ministry of Attorney General, Coroner's Service.

Coroner wants to know about the relevance of conflict within Crown's office that would prevent similar death.

Donaldson says it is relevant to know that this is the general lay of the land - including the role of Crown Counsel in pursuing charges against police officers.

Donaldson says there is nothing objectionable that he is doing. David McKnight (counsel to the Chief Constable) also looking pissed & fussy.

Why is the counsel for Vancouver Police Union preventing evidence that would give rise to systemic recommendations??

McKnight points out there is no Crown witness here. He says MacDonald's opinion on the conflict within Crown is not relevant to what is being put to the jury.

Out of curiosity, how many times has Vancouver Crown sought charges against #VPD officers following a report to crown counsel from the @iiobc?
CC @bccla @trackinjustice @pivotlegal

Coroner is now admonishing the gallery, which is largely comprised by the family of Myles Gray. Could the @bccoroners pull its shit together and at least feign interest in a trauma-informed inquest process???

It would be AWESOME to go down the road of examining how the Crown considers charges in BC. Let's start with looking at their use of force files.

Ronald MacDonald is back. He has been doing this oversight thing longer than anyone in Canada. (like, from the govt, keep people confident-in-police side)

Recommendations from Ronald MacDonald:
- the way we teach use of force & use of force methodology needs to change
- he will be going on about this at an upcoming police conference (Keeping the "I" in independent!)

- National Use of Force Framework - teaches officers to categorize rather analyze behaviour
- MacDonald wants to see officers do better critical thinking (good effin luck)
- MacDonald cites situations where police officers have been seriously harmed or killed (pls cite)

- MacDonald says cops mistake risk as a threat. He says cops engage in logical fallacies and their training doesn't address this.
- Police - failure to de-escalate. They escalate too soon & too quickly.
- Force is used because of "failure to comply"

MacDonald says police in BC escalate force due to lack of compliance, not due to increased level of threat.

MacDonald has been sharing his thoughts since last November.
- "We need to teach officers how to better critically think and assess situations."
- Cops categorize a subject's behaviour instead of analyzing behaviour.

MacDonald also wants to see more scenario-based training.
He is citing Calgary police as an exemplar.

MacDonald also references findings of the Mass Casualty Commission.

He wants to see a "fresh, open-eyed" approach to training police on use of force. He wants to see a national standard on police use of force.
"The force you use must be reasonable in response to the threat you face"

He wants to see involvement of police, academia, oversight & the community

Christine Joseph disputes that Ronald MacDonald is a use of force expert. Oooh she is getting into it with Mr. Chief Civilian Director.

Christine Joseph says the IIO is not hearing all the successful use of force applications

Ronald MacDonald now asked to explain guidelines re: subject vs. witness officers. The IIO developed a code of conduct with police agencies. Apparently it will be amended soon.
iiobc.ca/publications/g…

Ronald MacDonald acknowledges that OVERALL the #VPD murder of Myles Gray case took too long in getting to the Crown.

Great news, IIO salary levels are going up! How is that a systemic response to police killings in BC?!

J3 asks is there any way to determine if a person is untrainable.

This is kind of brilliant. Cops are untrainable.

MacDonald also cites organizational work culture. This has a big influence on how cops respond to people on the street.

Should an independent body audit police and compliance with policy & training?

We've done the audit. The answer is #Defund.

J4 says Chief Civilian Director is "great for optics." Ewww is Juror 4 asking for the IIO to hire a cop as the director?? This person is entrapped in the #ThinBlueLine

It is a fallacy to believe that you have to have been a police officer to judge the actions of a police officer.

Ronald MacDonald comments on body-cams. He says all frontline officers in Canada should be equipped with body-cams. Members of the public now expect police to be able to do the same.

Failure to not implement that tech [bodycams] has the potential to bring the administration of justice into disrepute. They are a valuable tool in IIO investigations.
MacDonald does say it's not the be-all, end-all.

MacDonald says there may be a trend towards "conduct bodies" being amalgamated with agencies like IIO. He says he is not sure of the value of that.

Returning from break, current witness is Michael Massine, a former police officer who is now testifying about use of force.

As he notes, a baton is a steel pipe. Even displaying it should be considered implied use of force.

Secondary application - motor dysfunction
Next level - bones or joints
Final level - transition to a lethal use of force target.

Anyways, listening to a former cop talk about use of force is a kind of a boring waste of time.

here's the doc that cops rely on: cacp.ca/cacp-use-of-fo…