Thread by @PandaScottish

[thread]

I was going to start this thread with a kids nursery rhyme

But instead Eylon Levy inspired it to start somewhere else

https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1746966896816042366

If you are wondering which nursery rhyme

It was this one

Anyway to come back to Eylon Levy

I agree with him

So I thought I would frame this around a simple question game for children

So I am going to place this game in a middle school classroom

So imagine yourself in a class of 32 children

So this game starts of with 2 class mates

Reuben and Sara

So Reuben

Has invaded Sara's home

Reuben has claimed it is self defence and there are bad people in Sara's family that justify their actions

Now the invasion doesn't go well for Reuben
What he thought would be an easy victory
Turns into a bit of a quagmire
Reuben gets desperate

He decides to

1. divert a river in Sara's garden casing it to damage her vegetable & herb patch

2. lay traps at one of the gates into her garden where her family bring their food shopping in at

3. lay traps on the road in front of her house to damage any delivery vehicles

4. destroys one of Sara's out buildings that contains a pantry or freezer storage of food that Sara's family grow and sell to other families in the area

Now the rest of the classroom join in

Adam and Leah are very critical of Reuben's actions

Isaac is not critical but not as much so as Adam and Leah

A few of the richer classmates offer money to help Sara in terms of the food crisis impact in their nation + damage from the river/traps.

The poorer classmates are impacted heavily by the lack of food deliveries Sara normally makes and have to pay more to by food from elsewhere.

So 2 questions.

There are other questions that can be asked but I just want to focus on these two

1. Do the class think Reuben was justified in flooding Sara's garden and causing a food crisis both for Sara's family and other families?
2. Why do the class think that the criticism of Reuben is different between Leah, Isaac and Adam

Now

As you may have guessed

This exercise is based on a real world example

Reuben has played the role of Russia
Sara of Ukraine
Adam the USA
Leah the UK
Isaac Israel

So

On question 1

What was your answer with Person actors

Was Reuben justified in causing a food crisis not just for Sara's family but for all other 30 children in the class?

In the international real world example?

Was Russia justified in casing a food crisis in not just Ukraine but for all other countries in the world?

So

Just to go into a bit more detail

Here is what Russia did

Here is the affect on the *entire* world

So here is how America criticised Russia

“The Russian government seems to think that using food as a weapon will help accomplish what its invasion has not – to break the spirit of the Ukrainian people,”

“The food supply for millions of Ukrainians & millions more around the world has quite literally been held hostage.”

“Russia’s action today — weaponizing food, using it as a tool, as a weapon in its war against Ukraine — will be to make food harder to come by in places that desperately need it"

“The bottom line is it’s unconscionable. It should not happen. "

“Russia is hearing a demand signal from countries around the world that they need to stop using food as a weapon of war"

here is how the UK criticised Russia

Here is the Foreign Secretary at the time "Food should never be used as a weapon of war."

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1540034532765753345?lang=en

They even made some helpful graphics to emphasise the message

https://twitter.com/FCDOGovUK/status/1702633783302803800

For those countries nearby, the mines also have consequences both in human and financial terms

theguardian.com/world/2022/jul…

Now we come to Israel

Here is Avshalom Vilan, Secretary General of the Israel Agricultural Association warning of the risks of a war between Ukraine and Russia

israeltoday.co.il/read/is-israel…

Here is the effect of Russia's weaponisation of food on Israel

Here is Israel's initial response to the Ukraine invasion


. mepc.org/commentary/isr…

Israel's response did get stronger

"PM Naftali Bennett condemned the killing of civilians documented in the Ukrainian town of Bucha but stopped short of accusing Russian forces of responsibility."

So apparently it is OK for countries to accuse other countries of war crimes.

reuters.com/world/middle-e…

After Russia destroyed the dam Israel's response got a bit stronger

although it was a bit weird that they avoid mentioning Russia

i24news.tv/en/news/intern…

Now strangely I have not included some of Ukraine's response

So here it is

Korolyov, like many officials, would like to see a specially created body address the problems. “I see all existing international institutions as being useless and amorphous, afraid to speak out against Russia, or do anything to stop Putin,”. “They don’t carry out their duties.”

The quote taken from the article below which is a good one on the use of food as a weapon of war

theguardian.com/world/2023/aug…

Here is International Humanitarian Law

Taken from

icrc.org/en/document/ih…

Now to come back to the game you just played as children

You have seen this was based on a real world example

So let me ask another simple question

Do yo think International Humanitarian Law banning the starvation of civilians as a method of warfare applies to all countries?

Another simple question is

Who should try and speak out about or stop war crimes?

Here are the words of Margaret Thatcher

Maybe it would be easier

If each country was able to just declare themselves that everything they did was compliant with international law

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1747621849704362311

Now you might argue that the words from Margaret need to be taken in context

So let me give you that context

Source:Jewish Chronicle , 19 June 1981, pp24-25
Journalist:Monty Modlyn, Jewish Chronicle

The full interview at :

margaretthatcher.org/document/104476

I am going to reproduce some of it here

I will present each question and answer together

So lets begin

so you can now see where I got the quotes from

So there is a reason I gave yo an example from the Ukraine Russia war

To establish what yo felt as food being used as a weapon of war when you role played as the perpetrator, the victim and other targets affected by the action

So now I want to turn to another conflict, back in time to 10th Oct 2023

“I have given an order — Gaza will be under complete siege. There will be no electricity, food or fuel [delivered to Gaza]".

Why is it bad for Russia to use food as a weapon of war but OK for Israel?

e.g.

“Israel is hearing a demand signal from countries around the world that they need to stop using food as a weapon of war"

“The bottom line is it’s unconscionable. It should not happen."

Does the Defence Secretary know his order is against international humanitarian law?

Did anyone tell him?

If the armed forces are the "most moral in the world" surely one of these fine upstanding moral soldiers would have told him?

Surely the Prime Minister of the nation

The holder of the highest office in the land understood what this order meant and intervened

At least to correct his Defence Secretary if not fire him?

Maybe you want to try and argue yes we are using siege tactics but they are ok because...

The law does NOT allow a because clause

It doesn't matter how many men, women & children Hamas murdered, mutilated, raped, tortured & kidnapped

That still doesn't justify a *because*

Now if the Prime Minister of the nation isn't prepared to take a moral stand

Who else in a position of authority should be prepared to take a moral stand?

“I think it is definitely correct for religious leaders to speak about morality, to set a tone and to give a direction for our society."

So let's turn to what 2 faith leaders say about the use of food as a weapon of war and to name the quotes

On the left - His Holiness the Pope

On the right - Chief Rabbi

“I think it is definitely correct for religious leaders to speak about morality, to set a tone and to give a direction for our society."

I spent 15 minutes searching for words from the Chief Rabbi on Russia's use of food as a weapon of war, I couldn't find any

The link for the Pope:

vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2…

Here is a nice discussion between an archbishop and a chief rabbi

The article the Chief Rabbi wrote for the Daily Telegraph

chiefrabbi.org/all-media/misa…

So I would ask a simple question again of the Chief Rabbi

Why is it a crime for Russia to use food as a weapon of war

But it is OK for Israel to use food (& water, electricity and power) as a weapon

It is a simple question

So I want to stop talking about the use of food as a weapon of war now.

I want to return to the nursery rhyme I talked about at the beginning of this thread.

Because it actually ties into the conversation we are having about the behaviour of a nation at war

A reminder of the nursery rhyme

So why did I pick that nursery rhyme

Because I thought it ties together some fascinating stories

Now the nursery rhyme is based on churches in London

Now I want to focus on just one of those churches

St Clements

Now in London there are two St Clement's

St Clement's Danes or St Clement's Eastcheap

hangerlondon.com/oranges-lemons…

I am going to focus on St Clement's Danes

The RAF Chief Chaplain officiated in the dedication of the bells.

The "Boom" bell for Lord Trenchard (described as the Father of the Royal Air Force)

So I want to talk about booms

I want to talk about air strikes

St Clement's Danes I will come back to very shortly as to why I have chosen to fit it into this story

The air strikes in question of course those carried out by Israel since October 7th

So I want to try and talk about Israel and its air campaign against Gaza

It started bombing Gaza on the 7th October 2023

And on 20th October 2023 it set out some "phases"

Here is Defense Minister Yoav Gallant speaking to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee

Now I have 1 simple question in relation to bombing:

How many Palestinian civilian deaths are proportionate?

Because it is that inability to answer that simple question

as you seek to deflect, divert, dodge ,duck and dive from the question seek to deflect, divert, dodge ,duck and dive from the question

So before we get to the Israeli Ambassador to the UK

Let's start with a scenario

Same as we did with the exercise for schoolchildren at the start of the thread

So we are going to start with a number 5.6

Same as we did with the exercise for schoolchildren at the start of the thread

So we are going to start with a number 5.6

The example of architecture taken from:

athensjournals.gr/architecture/2…

So imagine this is your home.

There are 7 floors in the building and 2 flats in each floor.

So lets say of these 14 flats 10 have similar size families and the other 4 have a bit smaller occupancy at 3

So one flat building contains 62 people of whom lets say 30 are children.

So of these 32 adults and 30 children

When Israel bomb this building

How many Hamas terrorists must be underneath this building to make it a proportionate risk in terms of civilian deaths?

Where y = 62 and x = 1 are the starting vales

x Hamas terrorist : y civilians

If they are bombing a block - if this is 2 flat buildings

How many Hamas terrorists must be underneath this building to make it a proportionate risk in terms of civilian deaths?

Where y = 124 and x = 1 are the starting vales

x Hamas terrorist : y civilians

Now I have focused on the most basic building type

A home

What if we upgrade that to

a school
a mosque
a refugee camp
a hospital
or a safe zone

What is a proportionate civilian death toll if you bomb those?

For example

Here is the Omari Mosque

A building with a long history

theconversation.com/gazas-oldest-m…

This article highlights:

So I am going to move on from the simple question

To how Israel has tried to style out the air attacks

So lets go through each of these 13 in turn

1. You are denying the atrocities that Hamas committed

No, I am not

Hamas are a bunch of murderers and rapists whose acts carried out on 7th October against men, women and children are a stain on humanity.

2. You wont call Hamas terrorists

Hamas are terrorists

I would use lots of other words that would get very sweary

Sometimes I am not sure whether it is easier just to call them murderers and rapists.

3. You are abandoning the hostages

No, I am not.

The hostages should be released

I am questioning the words and actions Israel has used since 7th October

4. You are denying Israel's right to self-defence

No, I am not

I am questioning the words and actions Israel uses in self defence.

5. You are denying Israel's right to exist

No, I am not

I am questioning the words and actions of Israel.

If I criticise Russia for the use of food as a weapon of war.

What gives Israel an exemption from a similar critique?

6. You are anti-semitic

No, I am not

How sad that you invoke the use of anti-semitism as an accusation rather than just simply respond to *very basic* questions about the words and actions Israel has used

I wrote a thread on the blessed memory of Hans Litten

Whose cross examination of one man was so so powerful at the time. It sadly did not stop the terror that was to come.

And how smearing lawyers is reminiscent of the language of the 1930s

https://twitter.com/PandaScottish/status/1633824610310582273

I even wrote a thread where Michael Gove said that a jew who cared about the common good was a threat to brexit Britain

Kidding – I didn't – Michael Gove said that a catholic who cared about the common good was a threat. Does that make it ok?

https://twitter.com/PandaScottish/status/1354385289620418561

7. The Palestinian Authority death toll figures are unreliable

Really that's weird

Because in previous conflicts

Their figures have been found to be reliable

If they are so unreliable

Why is Israel using them?

Here's the link to the news article that tweet is quoting from

mekomit.co.il/%d7%94%d7%a6%d…

and the tweet itself

https://twitter.com/yuval_abraham/status/1750123648533324158

Now you can of course go back to previous conflicts and look at how the death toll was reported there

For example

“The figures are very disturbing. Over 500 have now reportedly been killed in Gaza, and over 3,000 injured.”

That was Prime Minister David Cameron

Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond

"There must be a humanitarian ceasefire that is without conditions. We have to get the killing to stop."

"The British public has a strong sense that the situation in Gaza is simply intolerable and must be addressed - and we agree with them."

Here's a BBC Verify article outlining the challenges in trying to count the death toll accurately

bbc.co.uk/news/world-mid…

So my other simple question is

If you think the PA are fabricating the figures

That's fine

It's the 25th January

The current figure is 25,700

So let's assume that figure is true - just pretend - what is your reaction to 25,700?

If you don't believe it - where do you think the figure sits at and is it acceptable?

What figure would not be acceptable?

8. There are no innocents in Palestine

Humanitarian law has something to say about this collective punishment

casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossar…

9. Israel isn't intentionally harming civilians

If a terrorist is hiding in the basement or a tunnel under a building

And you drop a bomb on the building

You have intentionally dropped a bomb on that building that
1. harms any occupants of the building
2. anyone beneath it

10. Israel is not responsible for its air strikes but Hamas is

Israel has agency
It was her choice to drop that bomb

Not Hamas'
Hamas did not make you drop that bomb

11. But the UK deliberately bombed a school in Copenhagen during WW2

This one is courtesy of the Israeli ambassador

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1717433696997802187

So the raid she is talking about

Was Operation Carthage an RAF one which targeted the Gestapo HQ in Copenhagen

sadly during that raid one of the planes in the early waves got shot down and crash landed away from the Gestapo HQ

Tragically on a school

And some of the subsequent waves thinking the smoke of that crash was the target bombed the school

peoplesmosquito.org.uk/2013/12/06/ope…

The RAF video on the raid at :

https://twitter.com/royalairforce/status/1241243301270913024

The Imperial War Museum

iwm.org.uk/collections/it…

the Israeli ambassador is arguing In a war where
precision munitions did not yet exist in a raid where a tragic accident led to the mistaken targeting of a school

Is equivalent to the "most moral army" with precision weapons

The utter fucking state of that defence

12. But the USA/UK bombed Raqqa / Mosul

So here's a reminder of that conflict

this AirWars paper provides a good insight into the civilian casualties in Raqqa/Mosul

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidenc…

So I don't know why Israel thinks the comparison with Raqqa/Mosul is beneficial to its case ... it is the direct opposite given the volume and intensity of bombs dropped and the targets upon which they have been dropped

13. But the USA/UK bombed Dresden in WW2

"Dresden was symbol"

So I am going to back to my profile of Lord Trenchard

And an RAF publication

it starts at page 37 in the below document

raf.mod.uk/what-we-do/cen…

There is an article specifically on Dresden that starts at page 100

The convergence of British retaliation for Coventry

combined with wanting to help (or be seen to be helping) Stalin

added with weather

was to become a lethal combination

So the debate over the bombing of Dresden...

I am not going to repeat it here

But I found several quotes in this article interesting

'THE PEOPLE OF DRESDEN BELIEVED THAT AS LONG AS THE LUFTWAFFE KEPT AWAY FROM OXFORD, DRESDEN WOULD BE SPARED.’

And

taken from :

history.co.uk/article/was-th…

Now I did not know that Oxford was not bombed by the nazis during the war

oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18436445.…

Now it is worth a reminder on Coventry

?historiccoventry.co.uk/blitz/blitz.php

And to focus in on the recovery from the bombs used in Coventry

a fuller history of the cathedral at

coventrycathedral.org.uk/heritage/histo…

The Community of the Cross of Nails that grew out of that attack on a city

embraceme.org/blog/the-kingd…

I don't think the aerial bombing campaign of world war 2 and Dresden and other German cities

gives the Israeli ambassador the shield she thinks it does when trying to justify civilian deaths in Gaza

You obviously can bear in mind that the Geneva convention and humanitarian law in the aftermath of world war 2 was due to the horrors of that war across many of its theatres of conflict

The reason I chose the 13th item to be Dresden

Was that it ties back into the church bells of Oranges and Lemons

0:00 Maria,
0:35 Jesaja,
0:51 Hanna,
1:07 Josua,
1:30 Philippus,
1:45 Jeremia,
2:03 David and
2:28 Johannes.

And eventually

Back to St Clement's Danes

Now

It is also fascinating

Because

Margaret Thatcher

When asked to do an oration at a memorial to Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris

Said no

"I am not the right person to do this"

My simple question - why was the Prime Minister of the united Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland not the "right person" ?

Who did she think was the "right person" ?

margaretthatcher.org/document/136548

At her funeral

Her coffin set off from St Clement's Dane's from the very shadow of the state to Air Marshall Sir Arthur Harris

A fuller write p of her funeral

theguardian.com/politics/2013/…

So I have chosen to focus this thread on two topics

The use of food as a weapon of war

And the civilian death toll in Gaza

I was inspired as I said at the start by Eylon's tweet

Israel has a choice in its words and in its actions

It has agency

It has responsibilities

The right to self defence is not a blank cheque

For any nation

Whether its on nuking Gaza

Whether its on all Palestinians being evicted to some artificial man made island in the Mediterranean

Whether its on West Bank Settlers

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1727053987776524509

Whether it is on using the wrong type of munition to bomb a refugee camp

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1740467559273505262

Whether it is on bombing a safe zone

You did not *have* to bomb a safe zone

You cold have chosen not to

Whether it is on cheering on the destruction

https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1736541361287934432

So I am going to wrap up now

I go back to Margaret Thatcher and her words on the rule of law

Here as a example is Alicia Kearns questioning David Cameron (the now Foreign Secretary)

https://twitter.com/CommonsForeign/status/1744816966542491792

The transcript for that session:

committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/1…

Here is a simple question asked of Rishi Sunak

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1746868609098424666

Here is a simple question again to Rishi Sunak

https://twitter.com/StephenFlynnSNP/status/1750174045356666884

From the news article :

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1749925191835148442

If America and the UK are friends to Israel

If we have given counsel in secret to try and temper Operation Iron Swords

It has not worked

Alas

I will wrap with a speech from Chatham House on the dangers of double standards and hypocrisy

https://twitter.com/ChathamHouse/status/1750096108662013994

@threadreaderapp unroll please