Thread by @innercitypress

OK- Carroll v. Trump 2d trial closing arguments - and jury deliberations. Trump is here - but not in the courtrom yet. Inner City Press will live tweet as it did 1st trial (incl in this book ) thread belowamazon.com/dp/B0C4WZG4D3

Judge Kaplan: I notice the defense is not yet in the courtroom...
[Then]
Judge Kaplan: Now Mr. Madaio is in the courtroom.
[Habba enters.]
Judge Kaplan: Ms. Habba, it is now twenty minutes to ten.
Habba: I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

Judge Kaplan: Does your client intend on being present?
Habba: He's here.
Judge Kaplan: He's not in the courtroom.
Habba: I can grab him...
[Trump enters]
Judge Kaplan: So let me say, during the arguments and instructions, no one else is to speak...

Carroll's lawyer: We have an issue with some of the tweets, they were not entered into evidence.
Madaio: These are tweets during the five hour gap. They are objecting.
Judge Kaplan: You did not succeed in entering them. Show me the slide

Judge Kaplan: You are not showing the slide.
Habba: Your Honor, Ms. Kaplan stipulated -
Judge Kaplan: Sit down. You are on the verge of spending some time in the lock up.
(Habba appears to laugh)
Judge Kaplan: Bring in the jury

Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump's testimony yesterday was brief because he doesn't get a do-over
Trump's lawyer Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Roberta Kaplan: This is about how to compensate Ms. Carroll for the two statements- & punishing Donald Trump

Roberta Kaplan: This trial is about getting him to stop once and for all. It's also about whether the rules apply to all, including to Donald Trump. Think of his attitude to this proceeding - he says, She was asking for it

Roberta Kaplan: He claims he had no choice but to break the law and defame her. She was a beloved advice columnist. Then a wave on social media, echoing what Donald Trump says. Let's consider: in 2019 he said "pay dearly" and "dangerous territory."

Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump has tried to normalize this conduct. Normally, when people lose in court, they change their behavior.
[Trump leaves]
Judge Kaplan: The record will reflect that Mr. Trump just rose and left the courtroom

Roberta Kaplan: Mr. Carroll's old friend Carol Martin said she just wanted her day in court. Now she has it.
Judge Kaplan: We're going to change gears. The defense is to remain seated. That includes you, Mr. Epshteyn, not that you're part of the defense

Roberta Kaplan: Ms. Carroll's success as an advice columnist obviously relied on her audience's trust. She built it over decades. She had one truth too painful to share - in the Spring of 1996 Donald Trump sexually assaulted her. She tried to suppress it

Roberta Kaplan: Her 274 page book contained nine pages about Donald Trump. New York Magazine published that. Donald Trump then told lie after lie after lie, to destroy her. Put up Slide 4
[It is entitled, Defamatory Statement:
disgrace... never met this person]

Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump was lying and trying to destroy Ms. Carroll. On the White House lawn he repeated it, claiming that he didn't know her. He threatened her - People have to be careful, because they're playing with very dangerous territory

Roberta Kaplan: He said, She is not my type. This was designed to humiliate Ms. Carroll. But remember, he mistook Ms. Carroll for Marla Maples, his ex-wife, also a beauty queen. Show the video
[on video: Trump: "that's John Johnson... And that's Marla...]

Roberta Kaplan: Then he claimed the photo was blurry. It is not. This was classic Donald Trump. Now, the damages. Obviously Ms. Carroll suffered harm... She now has only 1800 paying customers on Substack. Professor Humphreys gave you the estimates of harm

Roberta Kaplan: Prof Humphreys estimates between 7 and 12 million dollars to repair reputation - smaller than other programs, as she explained.
Madaio: Objection. It's not in the record.
Roberta Kaplan: It is.
Judge Kaplan: The defense asked about other programs

Roberta Kaplan: She told you about the case of Rudi Giuliani and the Georgia elections workers -
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: It's up to the jury.

Roberta Kaplan: Imagine being Ms Kaplan in that hotel room on 10th Avenue, struck by fear and sadness - the man who attacked her was coming after her again. She wanted to close the curtain. So she hung up jump suit - she was unable to sleep

Roberta Kaplan: There were more threats waiting for her every time she answered her phone. She tweeted, the world needs love - the responses were, "you are a c*nt" and "no way Trump touched this mess," etc. Since 2019 they have never stopped

Roberta Kaplan: The dollar number to compensate her has to be very large. At least as much as $12 million for the reputational repair campaign, and probably more. And how much will it take to get Donald Trump to stop? Punitive damages are to punish the malicious

Roberta Kaplan: Consider what Donald Trump has done here. He said she made it up, she was a disgrace; he threatened her twice, he unleashed millions of others to flood her with hate. We played his deposition - he called her mentally sick, and threatened to sue

Roberta Kaplan: Watch this CNN Town Hall
[Trump: My poll numbers went up [audience cheers] I have no idea who this woman is, she is a wack job]
Roberta Kaplan: Did you see that? The audience laughed. It made Ms. Carroll feel horribly

Robert Kaplan: His attacks have intensified. While Ms. Carroll was still on the stand, he held a press conference - while you were still sitting the jury box - watch this
[Video of 40 Wall Street press conference: It's a rigged deal, it's a made up fabricated story

Roberta Kaplan: Last Thursday he said, I've said it a thousand times, I never heard of E Jean Carroll and would never touch her.
Are you kidding me? A thousand times? It's up to you to make him stop. He is very wealthy. He said his brand is worth $10 billion

Roberta Kaplan: He said Mar-a-Lago is worth $1.5 billion
Madaio: Objection. These are not personal assets.
Judge Kaplan: Overruled. The jury will remember what was said.

Roberta Kaplan: You can award punitive damages. Yesterday my cross showed he didn't come to 1st trial - but he came to this one - well until just now - because he cares about money. So your decision is the only hope

Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump can't even deny -
Madaio: Objection
Roberta Kaplan: .. he can't deny because of the first trial... Your Honor, can I go on?
Judge Kaplan: I overrule[d]
Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump had been famous for years. Why did Ms. Carroll wait?

Roberta Kaplan: The so-called gap? Give me a break. The White House, which was run by Mr. Trump, had already denied -
Madaio: Objection.
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.]

Roberta Kaplan: Judge Kaplan will tell you that a person who has been defamed has no duty to mitigate. Donald Trump's defense table, the first very day, made an argument that has no basis in law. They're saying she had a duty to keep her mouth shut.

Roberta Kaplan: Donald Trump claims she actually benefited. It takes a lot of gall to make an argument like that. Donald Trump's lawyer described Ms. Carroll as a fame-seeking monster-
Habba: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: The jury will recall what was said

Roberta Kaplan: I'm going to sit down in a couple of minutes, I promise. On behalf of E. Jean and our whole team, thank you for paying attention to the evidence which was ugly. How much will it take to fix her reputation? Between 7 to 12 million. We say 12.

Roberta Kaplan: Next, we say another $12 million, probably much more. On punitives, I'm not going to tell you exactly how much. You can consider his wealth. Donald Trump is worth billions of dollars, he said that under oath. This will take an unusually high award

Roberta Kaplan: When you deliberate later today, consider we have a former President of the US who has shown contempt for the rule of law and our system of justice. Stand up for E. Jean Carroll and the rule of law.

Roberta Kaplan: If not, none of us would ever be safe from bullies. There is a way: you have the opportunity, maybe even the responsibility, to put an end of this right now with your verdict - make him pay for what he has done

Roberta Kaplan: Now is the time to make him pay for it... dearly.
Judge Kaplan: Thank you Ms. Kaplan. We'll take a ten minute break.
Book:
Thread will continue belowamazon.com/dp/B0C4WZG4D3

They're back.
Habba: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Counsel tried to tell you what my arguments are. I've never seen that. We've watched plaintiff try to pin Twitter trolls on the President of the US. Here he is reacting last year
[Video: This a witch hunt

Habba: I want to thank plaintiff's counsel for playing that for me. Yes, that's how he feels. Imagine a world when someone accuses you and you can't speak. She said Ms. Carroll defended herself - she said that, just now: a right to defend. What's good for thee?

Habba: She's right, he has not wavered. Because it is the truth.
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained - that has been proved false. As I will instruct the jury.

Habba: Her bankrollers are paying -
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained. Ms. Habba, if you continue you may face consequences.
Habba: The White House denial in an article Ms. Carroll spread all over social media - not part of this suit

Habba: Ms. Carroll cannot. Prove. Causation. She gave her story to The Cut, she said, they knew how to break the news. She was looking to make a splash. On June 21, 2019 at 12:14 it went live - it ignited a media storm. President Trump did not know for 5 hours

Habba: Before that, a flood of tweets responded. Before President Trump even made a statement. She said there were messages of love and support, and also attacks. This five hour gap is essential.

Habba: You are not here to pay Ms. Carroll for people who wrote mean tweets to her. No. They have to prove a direct causal connection to his two statements.

Habba: This is the beauty and danger of free speech in America. President Trump does not control the speech of others. Before and after President Trump's statement, both of these statement said Ms. Carroll did it to promote her book. Frankly, her friend said that

Habba: Ladies and gentlemen, I have received three threats this week --
Judge Kaplan: Counsel, that was inappropriate. Jury will disregard.
Habba: They have six threats, only from 2023. Why not before? She deleted them. Or perhaps they didn't exist

[Trump is at the defense table, listening]
Habba: She deleted the evidence she wants you to rely on. They are not here. She has to give them to you. They are not here. She took the stand and said she received death threats the day of the Cut, was in a "trance"

Habba: She didn't call the police - but she hung the pants. She didn't tell anyone - but she hung the pants. Focus on the details, not the noise.
[Photo below from Truth Social 1 minute ago - during closing

Habba: She was freely walking the streets of New York, she said Midtown was the safest place on earth. She worked in a fake orange jump suit with a fake Donald Trump
[See book cover below : ) amazon.com/dp/B0C4WZG4D3

Habba: There are two versions of E. Jean Carroll - the one her friend told you about, and the one who comes to court to get money from my client... Ladies and gentlemen, you heard him testify, that he didn't intend to hurt her.

Habba: All he did was tell his truth.
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: I'll deal with it in my instruction.
Habba: My feelings would be hurt to. But it happens when you are a public figure. Just ask E. Jean - she said she was fabulous, she was carefree

Habba: She has always craved fame. She expressed it privately to Lisa Birnbach, that she was fine as fine, that she slept until noon. She didn't think you'd see that. That's her best friend. But on the stand she claimed it wasn't true

Habba: And she hasn't suffered professionally. She didn't lose her advice column because of my client - it's because she lost her column at Elle. Before she conveniently came out with this claim
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.

Habba: Another tweet of hers: what can be done abou the p*nis? I'm mortified I have to repeat this
[Note: With Trump sitting in the courtroom, how are "his" posts on Truth Social taking place? Bit here on X for subscribers

https://twitter.com/innercitypress/status/1750922607245787520

Habba: Here she tweet, How to dominate a man. [Pauses] Dominate a man. She didn't take it down. She wrote, He will soon regret he even has a p*nis. Is that a threat?
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained

Habba: Now she's claiming other people's tweets made her look scandalous? Numbers don't lie - these are the views and the tweets sent to Ms. Carroll - only five views, fifteen views - these are the ones they picked, to show you her damage

Habba: She's enjoying this. She is making more money today than she was in June of 2019 when she brought this up. She had hid financial rock bottom. Elle Magazine cut her salary in half, no more dinners at Elaine's, just a cottage in the wood, like Montana

Habba: She had been writing the book for years - then put in President Trump while he was in the White House. She sat in her cabin far from the glamor of New York. So she made her way - release of The Cut, she made money. She got publicists, lunch with journalists

Habba: Her best friend said Ms. Carroll love the adulation from this lawsuit, that she was acting like Santa at the Christmas parade. She said Ms. Carroll is a drug addict and the drug is herself, in a communication that she never thought you'd see

Habba: Do you think she wants her old reputation back? To go back to the cabin, with 12000 followers on Twitter? I asked her, After this are you done? She wouldn't answer. She yearned for this. She had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Habba: They picked as their expert Ms. Humphreys. Her report was riddled with mistakes - she can't find 17 errors we found --
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.
Habba: Your Honor -
Judge Kaplan: Sustained!

Habba: She said, Republicans were more likely to not believe Ms. Carroll than non-Republicans. Duh! Duh! Thank you Ms. Humphreys. You need an expert to make that point. People are entitled to their opinions. Who do you want you to fix it? Give her money

Habba: Their expert has never done a reputation repair campaign. She said Joe Rogan and Candace Owens could repair her reputation. What planet is she living on? Now during the trial she changed her setting on social media to private. She could have done it before

Habba: Imagine you are living your life. You have a family, a beautiful wife, and an important job to do. You're hit with an allegations. There are no facts -
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.
Habba: She doesn't even know what I was saying

Judge Kaplan: Move onto another topic
Habba: Under the First Amendment you have a right to speak -
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained
Habba: You've heard the objections, you've heard me being told to sit down
Robert Kaplan: Objection
Judge: Move on

Habba: This is not about Ms. Carroll & Donald Trump. This is about tweeters in their mother's basement. Ms. Carroll has been made whole-
Roberta Kaplan: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Sustained.
Habba: Ladies and gentlemen, sorry you had to spend so much time on this.

Judge Kaplan: Rebuttal?
Carroll's 2d lawyer Crowley: I'm going to follow the court's rules, unlike Mr. Trump and her lawyer. Ms. Habba said there was a five hour gap. But there's no evidence of this gap-
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled

Judge Kaplan: She showed you only five tweets-
Habba: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Only one lawyer. Who is it?
Habba: Michael.
Michael Madaio: Objection.
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.

Crowley: Donald Trump assaulted Ms. Carroll
Judge Kaplan: I told counsel to remain seated but they won't
Crowley: Thank you Your Honor. Donald Trump is saying, She asked for it. I have to ask: are you really still doing that? Have we not moved on? I think we have

Crowley: She didn't ask to be called ugly, or a liar. Ms. Carroll didn't ask for death threats. She gave interviews because she had to defend herself. She brought this lawsuit to try to get him to stop. You can't equate their conduct

Crowley: When Donald Trump told those lies he was breaking the law. And he's still breaking the law to this day-
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Crowley: Donald Trump is responsible. What could be more on brand for Donald Trump than malice?

Crowley: He is breaking the law-
Madaio: Objection, it's on appeal
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Crowley: You can respond to true charges by staying silent, or apologize. If he'd done that, do you think people would have come after her?

Crowley: They're suggesting Ms. Carroll has to show she'd been broken every day for five years. In their view every day she showed a brave face she was showing she suffered no harm. That makes no sense. Two things can be true at the same time.

Crowley: This five hour gap? There's no evidence.
Madaio: Objection.
Judge Kaplan: I'll rely on the jury to look at the evidence closely.
Crowley: Trump's initially denial which was issued by the White House-
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled

Crowley: The White House statement said -
Madaio: Objection, it's not in evidence.
Judge Kaplan: I'll see you at the sidebar
[whispered sidebar ensues, mid-rebuttal
Thread will continue

They're back.
Judge Kaplan: The objection is overruled. Continue, counsel
Crowley: Thank you, your Honor. The denial in The Cut, it didn't say she would pay dearly. His followers latched onto it. They keep saying it four years later.
Madaio: Objection
Overruled

Crowley: Donald Trump kept defaming Ms. Carroll -
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled.
Crowley: They keep coming after her. No causation? Give me a break. About Professor Humpreys. She was the only expert here
Madaio: Objection!
Judge Kaplan: Overruled

Crowley: Professor Humphreys, the mislabeling is a distraction. Their last complaint is that she didn't consider the positive responses - this shows they don't understand what Prof Humphreys did in this case. It's about changing minds

Crowley: The law of defamation is about protection people from harm when people lie about that. You only have to change the minds of the people who believe the lie. Ms. Habba went on about deleting some of the death threats. Ms Habba got it wrong to mislead you

Crowley: She had no duty not to delete-
Madaio: Objection
Judge Kaplan: Sustained in part. I'm not going to detail which part just now. Jurors, you decide if this matters to you
Crowley: She said she deleted some of the nasty replies. She had no obligation to keep

Crowley: I think we can understand why she wouldn't want to keep these? Who among us hasn't deleted a nasty tweet or email? These are death threats from people who believed HIS lies, and expanded on HIS threats.

Crowley: You're going to hear Judge Kaplan's instructions on the law. Then you'll decide how much Donald Trump is going to pay. He wants you to blame her, that Donald Trump is the victim here.

Crowley: Her so called salacious tweets? She was reposting readers' questions. She was doing her job. They want to stop her. According to the defense, he gets to ignore a jury verdict. You saw how he behaved at trial - he walked out while Ms. Kaplan was speaking

Crowley: This is not a political rally. This is a court of law. Donald Trump is not the victim. Make him pay enough so that he will stop. Thank you.
Judge Kaplan: I will now deliver the jury charge.
Deputy Andy: Marshals, please lock the doors
Thread will continue

[hand copy of the jury change being distributed -
Trump still in the courtroom]
Judge Kaplan: When you retire you will select one juror as the foreperson. The foreperson will send out any notes and will notify the officer when a verdict has been reached.

Judge Kaplan: Your answer to one question will determine your answers to some following, in some places. Whatever you do, just answer the questions. I tell you from experience - you are not to add any commentary, no extraneous remarks. Answer on 1 copy

Judge Kaplan: At the bottom, put your juror number, not your name. Place the verdict in an envelope, I will ask for it. Each of you should be in agreement with verdict. Once announced it ordinarily can't be revoked.

Judge Kaplan: We can read back testimony to you, or sometimes submit it to you in writing. Only ask if you actually need it. You took an oath to rule only on the evidence.

Judge Kaplan: This Court was the first in the United States. Since those first days, jurors like you have been asked to decide cases. I am sure you will be just. Counsel, any objections to my instructions?
[Sidebar]
Judge Kaplan: I left one word out: "not"

Judge Kaplan: The exhibits will be sent into the jury room. That normally takes a bit of time. I ask counsel to stay near the courtroom so we can respond. Your lunch is waiting for you - so 45 minutes, they are free to go -
Andy, swear the Marshall. The officer.

Judge Kaplan: We will break at 4:30 pm if there is no verdict, unless you send a note that you would like to stay somewhere later.
[No pizza like in US v. Sam Bankman-Fried final day?]
Judge Kaplan: Andy will take the exhibits. Videos on a laptop.

Judge Kaplan: Anything else we have to do before we go off and have lunch? None? OK.
[Thread will continue below as notes are brought in, and /or... a verdict?
book:
Thread will continue belowamazon.com/dp/B0C4WZG4D3

Update 1: the Carroll v Trump jury verdict sheet is out - screenshot of 1st page is below - will try to put it on DocumentCloud asap

OK - here now the full Carroll v Trump jury verdict sheet on DocumentCloud - thread will continue below when jury notes come out, the first should be to say which juror - which number - is the foreperson... documentcloud.org/documents/2437…

Waiting jury notes - and verdict? - the number of TV trucks and stand-up positions outside @SDNYLIVE courthouse continues to grow...
Thread will continue below

@sdnylive OK - at 4:16 pm, and E. Jean Carroll's lawyers have taken their positions at plaintiff's table.
So far the defense table is empty.

@sdnylive Now at 4:20 pm, E. Jean Carroll at plaintiff's table.
Still no one at defense table.

@sdnylive Word is, there is a verdict. Still no one at defense table

@sdnylive Drum roll, 5 minute warning: "Please be advised that a verdict has been reached in the above action and will be read in open court at 4:35PM"

As we wait, the first question will be: "Did Ms. Carroll prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that 1. Ms. Carroll suffered more than nominal damages as a result of Mr. Trump’s publication of the June 21 and June 22, 2019 statements?" Thread continues below

Judge Kaplan: I'm advised the jury has reached a verdict. We will have no outbursts in these proceedings, we will maintain decorum. Bring in the jury.

Jury entering!
Judge Kaplan: Please hand the verdict to Andy... Thank you. Clerk will read the verdict

Andy: id Ms. Carroll prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that 1. Ms. Carroll suffered more than nominal damages as a result of Mr. Trump’s publication of the June 21 and June 22, 2019 statements? Answer Yes.

Andy (clerk): 7.1 million... 11 million... punitives: $65 million

Judge Kaplan; Members of the jury, there was years ago a respected judge of this court would made it a practice never to thank a jury. Judge Weinfeld thought it was a duty - I think juries should be thanked

Judge Kaplan: If you wish to speak after the verdict - I order you not to disclose the names of any other juror, and I advise you not to disclose your own name.

Judge Kaplan: The transportation arrangements have been made. Enjoy the weekend.
[Jury leaves]
Judge Kaplan: Any other business?
Ms Habba: I would just like to thank the court staff
Judge Kaplan: You're welcome on their behalf. Adjourned.
Story (and vlog?) coming