Thread by @DBrozeLiveFree

3rd session begins in the #FluorideLawsuit

FAN calls expert witness Philippe Grandjean.

Philippe Grandjean is a Danish scientist working in environmental medicine. He is the head of the Environmental Medicine Research Unit at the University of Southern Denmark and adjunct professor of environmental health at the Harvard School of Public Health

FAN Michael Connett begins questioning: can you remind us why as a medical doctor you decided to become an epidemiologist?

Grandjean says he came to work with "the father of asbestos research" and this inspired him.

Connett: over the years you have advised a number of different govt agencies, corrrect?

Grandjean: yes.

Connett: one of those is the U.S. EPA, correct?

Grandjean: yes.

Grandjean lists his various government positions for the Danish govt, the EU, the International Agency for Research on Cancer of the WHO, as well as the EPA.

Connett: have the U.S. DOJ ever retained you for your expert opinion?

Grandjean says yes at some point the DOJ retained him as an expert witness relating to coal plants and mercury.

Grandjean has an extensive history of researching mercury. EPA contracted him to develop the reference dose on methyl mercury.

Connett asks if the EPA's reference dose is based on Grandjean's previous research. He confirms so.

Connett: you have also conducted a benchmark analysis of PFAS (forever chemicals), is that correct?

Grandjean explains his collaboration with the EPA on PFAS relating to the benchmark dose.

Connett asks what study EPA used to make their assessments of the dangers of PFAS, PFOS, PFOA etc.

Grandjean: I must admit they used my study.

Connett: Dr. Grandjean can you remind us about some of the factors that make the developing brain more vulnerable to the impact of environmental toxins?

Grandjean: I wrote a book called "Only One Chance" about the impact on the human brain. academic.oup.com/book/12128

Grandjean goes on to describe how the young developing brain is "uniquely vulnerable".

Connett: is it fair to say there is a heightened need to protect a babies brain from neurotoxins?

Grandjean: the most vulnerable population is pregnant women and newborns.

Connett: Dr. Grandjean have you relied on any occupational studies for determining fluorides toxicity?

Grandjean: that does happen when workers are exposed to fluoride. he goes to explain the work of Kaj Roholm looking at workers exposure en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaj_Roholm

Connett: so you werent able to find mortality of fluoride exposure, but Kaj Roholm did?

Grandjean: yes he did. he did questionnaires and physical examinations.

Connett: have you considered toxicokinetics in your research and can you explain what that means?

"description of both what rate a chemical will enter the body and what occurs to excrete and metabolize the compound once it is in the body."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicokin…

Grandjean is explaining that fluoride builds up in the body in bone material, but also breaks down and spreads through the body.

Connett: we know that fluoride does penetrate the blood-brain barrier and the placenta during pregnancy, would that fit under toxicokinetics?

Grandjean confirms and says that what the mother is absorbing will pass into the child.

Connett: have you read and considered the NRC 2006 review on fluorides toxicity? Did the NRC draw any conclusions on fluorides impact on the animal brain?

Grandjean: They found that fluoride could cause toxic changes in the animal brain.

Connett shows a quote from Kristina Thayer with the EPA which says she believes that animal data supports the biological plausibility of fluoride causing neurotoxic effects in humans. Grandjean says he agrees with Thayer's opinion.

Connett asks Grandjean about research on aborted fetuses. Connett asks if the researchers found evidence of impact of fluoride on the developing brains.

Grandjean says he doesnt recall.

Grandjean is discussing some of his work with Chinese scientists looking at fluoride exposure.

Connett: asks Grandjean whether or not the studies from foreign nations should be rejected in favor of more recent studies which do not show fluoride's harms.

Grandjean: (laughs) no, but I have heard people saying that.

Grandjean continues to describe his studies in China and elsewhere. "I think we have good support for accepting studies that were conducted far from the United States."

Connett: so you were able to observe the cognitive impacts of higher fluoride exposure?

Grandjean: I wouldnt call it higher exposure necessarily but yes we have observed.

Connett: based on your work on the studies in China can you explain the strengths of this research?

Grandjean: its not just China, but studies in India as well.

He explains researchers gave out standardized tests that were age adjusted to observe cognitive impacts.

Connett: do some of the studies from China and elsewhere limit the study population to children who lived in the fluoridated areas from birth?

Grandjean: confirms that subjects lived in the areas consistently and says this is an epidemiological benefit.

Connett says yesterday in EPA's opening statement they claimed that these Chinese studies were testing higher levels of fluoride exposure.

Grandjean says this was not the case. Even at lower levels there was evidence of cognitive impacts from fluoride.

Grandjean is asked to confirm statements from his deposition which show that the Chinese studies observed impacts at lower levels. He confirms his previous statement.

Connett asks Grandjean about the National Toxicology Program's May 2022 draft report which found lower IQ in children. Connett asks Grandjean if the NTP used his previous studies, as well as others. He confirms.

Judge Chen asks some clarifying questions to Grandjean. EPA says they want clarity about which specific study Connett is asking Grandjean about.

Connett says it will become clear with the next questions. Shows Grandjean a table from the NTP monograph.

Connett is showing a table from the NTP monograph and going through individual studies to show the various levels of fluoride exposure that were reviewed.

Connett appears to be attempting to show the quality of the Chinese studies which were reviewed by the NTP. He's asking Grandjean to state the levels of fluoride exposure for the record.

Connett asks Grandjean about the Choi, 2015 study which Grandjean was involved in. He asks about the levels of mg/L of fluoride.

Connett continues to go through the various Chinese studies reviewed by the NTP and asks Grandjean about the levels.

Connett now asks Grandjean about a Mexico study from 2007, and asks him about the levels of fluoride within drinking water and urinary content levels.

Connett continues the line of questioning, moving to the Canadian MIREC study.

Now asking Dr. Grandjean about studies on Indian populations.

Connett: When EPA said yesterday that the NTP data is being driven by studies with high levels of fluoride is that correct?

Grandjean: I think thats a misunderstanding bc that's not correct.

Connett: are you familiar with the evidence that exists for neurotoxicants when we are dealing with epidemiology?

Grandjean: Fluoride probably has the largest body of evidence of any of our known or suspect neurotoxicants.

Connett quotes the NTP's conclusions about higher fluoride exposure and lower IQ scores, asks Grandjean if he concurs with their conclusion.

Grandjean says their conclusions are "entirely parallel".

Connett quotes from the NTP again, which says that "several of the highest quality studies showing lower IQs in children were optimally fluoridated (.7 mg/L) in Canada"

The point he is making is that even at the "optimal levels" recommended by CDC and others there are impacts.

Connett: does the NTPs conclusion that "confounding is not considered to be a concern" make sense to you?

Grandjean says yes, but acknowledges there could be other unforeseen biases.

Connett quotes from NTP again, "there were few, if any, risk-of-bias concerns regarding exposure characterization in the low risk of bias studies". Asks if Grandjean is confident in the conclusions of the NTP.

Grandjean agrees and quotes from Dr. Howard Hu's testimony yesterday

Connett quotes from the NTP and asks Grandjean to comment:

"the low risk-of-bias studies have few concerns regarding outcome assessment."

Connett quotes NTP statement which found that the consistency of association (of lower IQ in children) in 5 countries "rule out the possibility that there is a common factor other than fluoride exposure that can account for this outcome." Grandjean agrees.

Connett: does this finding by the NTP speak to the degree of confidence we know have of a causal relationship between fluoride and lower IQ?

Grandjean: it does.

Connett: does that trouble you that we dont yet have high or medium confidence that fluoride is causing problems not relating to IQ?

Grandjean: you might want to look at motor function, behavioral problems etc, there's a whole range of problems, but we regard cognition IQ as most important bc it has socioeconomic consequences.

Connett: The types of tests that we use to measure IQ are they standardized?

Grandjean: yes, in different languages, cultures, and age adjusted.

Connett: what was the benefit of having such standardized tests?

Grandjean: this allows us to compare the data across different populations.

Connett asks judge if its a good time for break, Judge Chen agrees. Court is in recess for the next 10-15 minutes.